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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Creationism and genderism

36 replies

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 14/07/2021 17:19

So I saw this on Maya Forstater's Twitter feed today: mobile.twitter.com/MForstater/status/1415237869808111616

It reminded me of something I've been thinking about lately.

Years ago, I used to read a lot of atheist-y, science-y blogs/forums. Every so often, you'd get someone who was an evangelical Christian and/or Creationist turn up to spread the good news.

Almost every time, they had the exact same things to say. The same arguments, the same mantras, as if learnt and repeated by rote, rather than understanding.

Depending on the place/time/frequency, this would either get a response of carefully criticising the same old arguments yet again, or a round of eye-rolling, before the would-be missionary retreated.

It strikes me that reading FWR is basically the same. Every so often a new TRA turns up with the exact same by-rote arguments and mantras. They'll post the same old stuff, FWR regulars will respond with critique, exasperation or both. Then eventually the TRA will get bored of repeating themselves and disappear.

There's at least one of these threads going on right now - the same nonsense retreaded once more.

Helen Joyce's comparison of the Forstater case with the Scopes Monkey Trial just struck me that there's more than one similarity between genderists and creationists.

OP posts:
EndoplasmicReticulum · 14/07/2021 17:49

However OP it seems that a lot of the athiesty sciencey blogs have a massive blind spot with this particular issue.

OvaHere · 14/07/2021 17:48

This article may be of interest
4w.pub/refugees-from-reality-religious-trauma-and-gender-identity/

EndoplasmicReticulum · 14/07/2021 17:46

Another similarity, at the start of my teaching career Biology teachers were having to deal with creationists trying to interfere with the teaching of science. Now it's genderists, although they mostly seem to just be targeting PSHE lessons I can't imagine it will be long before they make a play for science lessons too.

Secondbellini · 14/07/2021 17:44

One lead to the other. As more religious people became secular, they took on many social justice ideas as a replacement for religion.

Hence public shaming, Sins of the father, iconoclastic behaviour, confessions, arbitrary rules, gendered souls, repeating of ideological phrases.

Xoxoxoxoxoxox · 14/07/2021 17:43

I was looking at the Venn diagram of irrational nonsense today and wondered where Trans ideology would fit in.
It mentions Creationism which is listed in 'quasi-religious bollocks' and the 'born in the wrong body' narrative might fit in there.
Then there is 'psudoscientific bollocks'- the mermaids gender gingerberead chart, 100 genders etc. Quackery bollocks (boys who like pink are girls) paranormal bollocks to cover all categories.

crispian-jago.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-venn-diagram-of-irrational-nonsense.html

theThreeofWeevils · 14/07/2021 17:39

Who are these people - Helen, Maya?
Since both surnames are there in the OP, it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find out. But I don't get the impression you are really looking for information, larkstar

InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 14/07/2021 17:36

@larkstar

You've used abbreviations without explaining them. What is FWR and TRA? Who are these people - Helen, Maya? What is your point?
FWR is short for Feminism & Women's Rights, TRA is short for Trans Rights Activist. These are common abbreviations on this board.

Maya Forstater is a feminist activist who was effectively fired for her views.

Helen Joyce is a journalist who's written a book (quoted in the Twitter link) on the sex & gender debate.

I'm not sure I have a point. Maybe just musing on the similarities.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 17:34

It strikes me that reading FWR is basically the same. Every so often a new TRA turns up with the exact same by-rote arguments and mantras. They'll post the same old stuff, FWR regulars will respond with critique, exasperation or both. Then eventually the TRA will get bored of repeating themselves and disappear

There's at least one of these threads going on right now - the same nonsense retreaded once more.

I agree, it's like Groundhog Day.

PhiRhoSigma · 14/07/2021 17:33

I'm quite new to Mumsnet. I see what you mean about the ongoing thread.

It's not a debate when responses are circular, fact-free mantras. It's not worth spending the time to engage.

Is it allowed to post "@xxx is a total chump*" or will it get deleted?

insert handle and *preferred terms of abuse as required

Thortful · 14/07/2021 17:31

I love it when TRAs turn up because it gives the wonderful GC feminists on here yet more opportunities to calmly and articulately debunk the tranagenda type argument.
Own goals for the TRAs, generally, and more sunlight on what is a totally irrational idealism.

larkstar · 14/07/2021 17:27

You've used abbreviations without explaining them. What is FWR and TRA? Who are these people - Helen, Maya? What is your point?

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