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Original poster

Irish Women’s Group Commissioned First Independent Survey On Attitudes To Gender In Ireland

56 replies

UtopiaPlanitia · 14/07/2021 13:29

I thought this information might be of interest.

Here’s the page on The Countess website with an overview of the results: thecountess.ie/first-irish-public-poll-on-gender-debate/

Here’s a link to the full report on the survey: thecountess.ie/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/The-Countess-Irish-Gender-Poll-2021.pdf

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 16/07/2021 19:11

I wish I had some idea why my last comment was banned. But it was literally so boring and innocuous I can't remember it. Apart from a reference to GK Chesterton. Sigh.

NiceGerbil · 16/07/2021 15:36

I thought it was stonewall but could be wrong so let's leave it there!

Original poster
UtopiaPlanitia · 16/07/2021 15:33

@NiceGerbil

Interesting thank you.

I was trying to find the thing recently where it said iirc that the stonewall survey around this they just ignored the responses that disagreed.

Have googled and no sign.

My memory might be wonky though! Anyone know what I'm thinking of?

Gerbil would you be thinking of the City of London consultation on public toilet provision? IIRC the author of that study ignored lots of responses that were deemed to have refused to use the preferred type of terminology when completing the survey.
OP posts:
PurpleHoodie · 16/07/2021 13:45

LGB Alliance Ireland was founded recently. They'll have a good take on this from the one angle.

They'll need our support.

Abhannmor · 16/07/2021 08:37

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DdraigGoch · 16/07/2021 01:15

@TurquoiseBaubles

The problem in Ireland is that most people have no clue that this is evening happening. I bet for at least 500 of the thousand they interviewed, this was the first they heard of males in female prisons and sports, and rapists transitioning, for example.

So I'm amazed at the results. They must have been clear questions. The opposite side will now put out a questionaire with questions such as "do you agree people should be able to live their life as they wish" and do you agree transitioned people can use the toilets they like (with no explanation of what transitioning now means); by muddying the questions they'll get an awful lot of don't know, can't be bothered to think about it, no harm in being nice.

Yes, Minister is as accurate as ever.
PurpleHoodie · 16/07/2021 00:05

Can't help, but Barracker, Floral and a few others are normally really good at collating/researching that type of information.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 23:58

Interesting thank you.

I was trying to find the thing recently where it said iirc that the stonewall survey around this they just ignored the responses that disagreed.

Have googled and no sign.

My memory might be wonky though! Anyone know what I'm thinking of?

elgreco · 15/07/2021 23:32

Good.

Joolsin · 15/07/2021 23:26

Very interesting results. The Countess is doing great work, I do hope that this will soon begin to percolate into the public consciousness here. I agree that most people haven't a clue about it all.

PurpleHoodie · 15/07/2021 23:20

🍀

PurpleHoodie · 15/07/2021 23:20
Flowers
FionaMacCool · 15/07/2021 17:06

" Ireland’s a conservative country trying to pretend that it’s all hip and progressive now, but gender ideology fits in well with tenaciously sexist attitudes to women in Irish public and private life, it also suits people caught up in the post-Catholic search for spirituality ."

Nodding along, and could not agree more. It is more "men in dresses" (that is a reference to Catholic priests, not anything else).

Thank goodness, I am not alone although it does feel that way at times.

Redapplewreath · 15/07/2021 16:56

Public opinion repeatedly settles to the same place:

Be who you are, be safe, be happy
No one changes sex
Sex based provision is needed
Provide what facilities are needed for additional diversity in addition and not instead of
Live and let live works both ways.

Original poster
UtopiaPlanitia · 15/07/2021 16:04

@Abhannmor

I share your pain. Not enough Glinners around alas. On the other hand...I have been booted from 3 different chat groups and unfriended by Irish women. I recently disabled FB after too much stalking/ abuse from some mad yoke. But hurrah for the Countess.
Bualadh bos to The Countess!!! They’ve got stuck in and produced some useful information and resources in a short-ish space of time.

Ireland’s a conservative country trying to pretend that it’s all hip and progressive now, but gender ideology fits in well with tenaciously sexist attitudes to women in Irish public and private life, it also suits people caught up in the post-Catholic search for spirituality.

Plus, it’s a relatively small population (largely brought up to be conformist and to respect authority) which means middle-class NGO and media types can have an outsized effect in directing the public discourse.

God save us all from mad yokes Wink

OP posts:
Abhannmor · 15/07/2021 14:56

I share your pain. Not enough Glinners around alas. On the other hand...I have been booted from 3 different chat groups and unfriended by Irish women. I recently disabled FB after too much stalking/ abuse from some mad yoke. But hurrah for the Countess.

Original poster
UtopiaPlanitia · 15/07/2021 13:39

I agree, most Irish people know nothing about what's been happening in terms of legislation and public sector policy in this area. My family certainly know nothing about it, despite watching RTÉ news and current affairs every day, listening to RTÉ radio daily, and reading the Irish Times - the self-ID legislation didn't get much coverage at the time and so they knew nothing about it.

When I tell them about it, the women in my family all get the implications and aren't in favour of gender identity - they want single-sex spaces and biological sex to be the determination of male and female. They're horrified at the male prisoners in Limerick gaol and they are so upset when I explain what's happening with regards to medicalising gender non-conformity in children.

The men are different in their reaction, they pride themselves on being liberal and progressive (not like the old Ireland) and they think they're not sexist (I and my female relatives would disagree - they're better than their fathers' generation but still wouldn't do a hand's turn around the house without being explicitly asked to help) and they immediately sympathise with the males in Limerick gaol - they think "it's a pity of them that there's something wrong with them and sure why not put in extra guards and let them be in the women's gaol". When I explain that the male prisoners haven't (and probably won't) have surgery and that they were sentenced for attacking women physically and sexually, the men get miffed with me for pointing out a problem with their 'solution' and they give me a load of guff about "well, we have to put them somewhere and the women will be protected by the extra guards". The concept that women don't want (sex-offender) males with them in the gaol seems to pass by my male relatives as information that's unexpected but not really a valid objection.

These are men who agreed wholeheartedly with the judgement in the Asher's Bakery case, that someone can't be compelled to support or agree with something against their own personal beliefs. Yet, when it comes to Irish women standing up for their sex-based rights and protections, these men become much less liberal. It's exasperating but I don't know why I was surprised, I mean I've been putting up with sexism and disdain, and being seen as less important than male citizens, from the Irish State and Irish men for nearly 50 years now.

OP posts:
PurpleHoodie · 15/07/2021 10:49

It does.

sillysmiles · 15/07/2021 10:48

I agree, beyond the being kind and accepting, the actual implications and wider reaching effects I don't think are understood by people. I think in general, people think "shur what ever they want to do themselves is grand" but imo the problem arises not from individual TG people but from a change of policy that makes it difficult/impossible to challenge those who are "using" TG policy for there own benefit. I hope that makes sense.

PurpleHoodie · 15/07/2021 10:13

Yes. Just that.

FionaMacCool · 15/07/2021 07:52

Absolutely Turquoise.
I have had those conversations around the dinner table, and have been asked to stop talking about the topic. It's quite "be kind" and "ah shur, what's the harm, poor sods".

Well, there is harm, and it'll be too late by the time it affects my mother and my daughters, nieces, sisters etc.

PurpleHoodie · 15/07/2021 06:40

Eresh Yes.

PurpleHoodie · 14/07/2021 20:11

TurquoiseBaubles

The problem in Ireland is that most people have no clue that this is evening happening. I bet for at least 500 of the thousand they interviewed, this was the first they heard of males in female prisons and sports, and rapists transitioning, for example.

Yes.

TurquoiseBaubles · 14/07/2021 20:04

The problem in Ireland is that most people have no clue that this is evening happening. I bet for at least 500 of the thousand they interviewed, this was the first they heard of males in female prisons and sports, and rapists transitioning, for example.

So I'm amazed at the results. They must have been clear questions. The opposite side will now put out a questionaire with questions such as "do you agree people should be able to live their life as they wish" and do you agree transitioned people can use the toilets they like (with no explanation of what transitioning now means); by muddying the questions they'll get an awful lot of don't know, can't be bothered to think about it, no harm in being nice.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2021 18:57

It's not remotely surprising, but the poll is very useful for Irish feminists and those in other countries when faced with "everyone except you supports self ID in Ireland"