Jeremy Vine Show Radio 2 Now

Times in my life I've been a non menstruator before age 12.5, after age 49, while pregnant, while using certain types of contraception.
Times in my life I've not been female - none.
Clear language is important.

Apparently today is Non-Binary awareness week and so my public sector workplace are bombarding us with daily awareness emails.
From today's email, on 'stepping up as an ally':
-introduce yourself with name and pronoun
-put pronouns in email signature
-avoid gendered language like ladies and gentlemen, say 'folks' or 'pals' instead.
-provide alternative titles such as Mx.
-use 'their' instead of his/her.
-avoid words define relationship and gender, instead focus on the relationship eg 'parent'.
-make sure that your workplace/school is using inclusive language and avoiding sentences that imply two genders.
They put forward Sam Smith as a fantastic non-Binary role model.
From Stonewall, of course.

*parent

Bea did mention that Stonewall are actively telling corporations and organisation to take out “gendered language” and instead use “patent” “birthing person” etc. It’s a shame more wasn’t made of this, because it really did make a nonsense of the Trans person’s repeated argument that “no one is trying to remove the word Mother or Woman”

Yes they bloody well are!

I’ll probably get banned for saying this, but if someone with a bio female body calls themselves male, not trans male. Is this not a mental health issue. Needing treatment for a cervical cancer or whatever and saying they were a man, not a trans man is very confusing and I feel for the medical staff having to tip toe around the fact.

Maybe I haven’t put this as delicately as I should. I struggle to get my head around this really.

But Chay said that they had had an abnormal cervical smear. So knows that they have a woman's biology even though they are a man. However the term trans man explains everything, and I understand that and respect the terms trans man and trans woman.

It all got a bit confused.

This person needs psychological help.

Their life could literally be at risk if they refuse to accept the reality of their biology.

I listened in the car hoping it would make things clearer, as tbh I don't really understand the terminology. It didn't... in fact I thought whoever JV was talking to sounded more confused than me!

Surely a woman is a woman, no matter what else she thinks she is or tries to be. Same for men? Or is that view going to get me hounded off MN

Was that Chay Brown from TransActual?

If so, then they’re supposed to be an “educator”, and surely that’s a bit of a worry if Chay is promoting ignoring biology when it comes to healthcare?

Actually I think I got the name wrong, it's Chay Brown not Shae. And yes Chay insisted that Chay is an adult human male.

Given the circumstances though with workers being off sick or isolating I can't see why everyone should clear up after themselves. The idea of leaving a toilet unfit for use is disgusting anyway.

And yes, everyone seems to know what a woman is when it comes to cleaning public toilets.

If you watch Jeremy on his c5 show he shows his true feelings on matters. On the BBC he won’t have an opinion.

I don’t understand it at all. Makes me feel so cross actually.

I didn’t think Shae came across very well. Shae sounded a bit confused.

Did I hear correctly that the Trans man didn’t want to be called a trans man because he was an actual man!

Yep. Talking about how confused “he” would be if “he” were invited for a healthcare appointment that is for women because “he’s a man”.

I mean if Shae doesn’t know that Shae has a female body and will therefore be in need of female specific healthcare from time to time then Shae is fucking stupid.

My parents, who are in their late 60s, listen to Jeremy Vine’s show most days. I asked them what they thought of this.

It sounds as though the whole topic was news to them, especially the death threats sent to JK Rowling. My dad expressed surprise that “such a small minority” were having such a big effect “on our language and what we do”. I can tell he didn’t really approve.

My mum was more forthright, calling it “crackers” and “PC gone mad”. And Mum is not exactly Bernard Manning - she’s very moderate and tries to see the best in everyone.

@MishyJDI

So I send little Alex into class. They are non binary. Which lesson should they go to? Do we have to ask the child what they were "assigned" at birth, will they understand why it's relevant when they were so cruelly assigned incorrectly?

Or do we put them all in together and know that the girls will be mercilessly ridiculed by the boys. Yes, probably that's what they would do. But still, how will each child know what bit pertains to them?

I listened in the car and thought MN will be all over this.

Jeremy really took time to choose his words carefully. It shows how ridiculous it is.

Did I hear correctly that the Trans man didn’t want to be called a trans man because he was an actual man!

I hadn't heard of the viral toilet camping story but prior to the two men helpfully offering up their wives my first thought was that it wouldn't be ALL the campers cleaning the toilets. It would be those ones we haven't got a word for.

Name change in honour of Jeremy.

Did anyone continue listening?

Two men saying they agree that campers should clean the toilets. One man will get his wife to it. The other just back from camping and his wife cleaned it every day.

Also Jeremy pointing out how gross the men's toilets will be for women.

Here’s what pisses me off about this whole “transmen can and do get pregnant” issue.

The Standard Application track for a Gender Recognition Certificate requires applicants to demonstrate that:

They have, or have had, gender dysphoria
They have lived fully for the last two years in their acquired gender and continue to do so;
They intend to live permanently in their acquired gender until death.

That’s directly from the gov.uk website.

Now what part of a trans man’s declaration that they have lived fully for the last two years in their acquired gender and continue to do so and commitment to live permanently in their acquired gender until death involves using their female body for the most female thing it is capable of doing- getting pregnant? Doesn’t that invalidate their GRC?

If I were a transman who intended to live permanently in my acquired gender until death the last thing in the world I would want to do is get pregnant. Getting pregnant is something women do.

I know aye

What will they learn in the other class. Jeez.

This non binary stuff makes no sense at all