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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this a man or a woman?

364 replies

GreatBigBird · 13/07/2021 23:21

YABU: woman

YANBU: man

www.cp24.com/news/woman-charged-after-allegedly-sexually-assaulting-boy-6-in-toronto-park-1.5507641

I can’t even begin to express myself.

OP posts:
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6
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 14/07/2021 16:13

Well, we now know that Ruby is definitely not a transman being prosecuted under a birthname...

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 14/07/2021 16:11

Does she aye?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 14/07/2021 16:09

Toronto police have commented that "Ruby identifies as a woman".

Is this a man or a woman?
Hullaballooooo · 14/07/2021 15:17

A blog on the strange rise in crimes that used to generally committed by men among women:
mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2021/07/woman-charged-after-sexual-assault.html

PS another interesting post on the same blog re sports participants at high levels too: mickhartley.typepad.com/blog/2021/07/mediocre-men-thriving-in-womens-sports-1.html
Mildly amused at the comment about waiting for the first trans-man to enter a drag queen contest.

Staffy1 · 14/07/2021 13:37

Ugh, so annoying. How have so many authorities been persuaded to go along with this bullshit?

andthedogtoo · 14/07/2021 13:21

@littlbrowndog

Instructed to tell a lie by a judge. 🙁

Then told off for not repeating the lie

Will that wee boy have to tell a lie as well 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

I would imagine he will have to. The reality is that men's feeling come before anything else.
EdgeOfACoin · 14/07/2021 13:18

Oh, this has been moved to the naughty corner, has it? Hmm

littlbrowndog · 14/07/2021 13:10

Instructed to tell a lie by a judge. 🙁

Then told off for not repeating the lie

Will that wee boy have to tell a lie as well 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Furries · 14/07/2021 13:05

@FreeBritnee - have attached a couple of screenshots taken from other threads.

Is this a man or a woman?
Is this a man or a woman?
Is this a man or a woman?
MotionActivatedDog · 14/07/2021 13:02

Maria MacLachlan (60) was told in court that she had to refer to her attacker (25) as 'she' as she gave evidence about the assault.

This just blows my mind. Court- the one place where you are legally obliged to tell the truth and the victim of a crime is being told, by the court to give false evidence. Confused

MistressOfEvilMaleficent · 14/07/2021 12:59

@FreeBritnee

Lack of Adams apple.makes it ambiguous. My gut instinct is man but it could be a trans man who has taken hormones 😬
FreeBritnee I think, but I could be wrong that if Ruby were a transman they would report Ruby as being a man, as that is how they identify? Also surely Ruby to feel more comfortable if they were a transman would be Rodney and not Ruby 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think that's how this game works now.

But to be honest, I'm completely confused on who is what, and what to say these days. I've been silenced by sheer confusion 😳

anon12345678901 · 14/07/2021 12:57

@SnoopyLights that poor woman, she's been let down by the justice system. The individuals in question don't deserve respect from anyone, call them exactly what they are, monsters and male. How dare the judge even ask that of her.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 14/07/2021 12:36

@SnoopyLights that is awful.

SnoopyLights · 14/07/2021 12:30

@DumplingsAndStew

So what happens now if a woman reports an attack by a man, who later reveals he is actually a transwoman, but preference is to be called a woman?

As well as possibly hindering a police investigation and a prosecution, can the victim be accused of a hate crime?

Maria MacLachlan (60) was told in court that she had to refer to her attacker (25) as 'she' as she gave evidence about the assault.

In an interview she gave after the trial, she said this about the experience of being forced to give evidence she felt wasn't accurate, and how it felt to be made to say "she" in court while reliving her ordeal.

My experience of court was much worse than the assault. I was the one on trial that day and if it hadn’t been for the clear video evidence that I’d been assaulted, my assailant wouldn’t have been convicted, even though there were over a dozen witnesses who could have said what happened.

I was asked “as a matter of courtesy” to refer to my assailant as either “she” or as “the defendant.”

I have never been able to think of any of my assailants as women because, at the time of the assault, they all looked and behaved very much like men and I had no idea that any of them identified as women.

After he was arrested, the defendant posted vile misogynistic comments on his Facebook page that no woman would ever make. He was also filmed aggressively intimidating a woman on a picket line, shouting obscenities at her. In what sense is this person a woman?

I tried to refer to him as “the defendant,” but using a noun instead of a pronoun is an unnatural way to speak.

It was while I was having to relive the assault and answer questions about it while watching it on video that I slipped back to using “he” and earned a rebuke from the judge. I responded that I thought of the defendant “who is male, as a male.”

The judge never explained why I was expected to be courteous to the person who had assaulted me or why I wasn’t allowed to narrate what happened from my own perspective, given that I was under oath.

His rebuke and the defence counsel’s haranguing of me for the same reason just made me more nervous and I so continued to inadvertently refer to my male assailant as “he.”

In his summing up, the judge said I had shown “bad grace” and used this as an excuse not to award compensation.

One writer said, “It was as if the state had colluded with the defendant to take one last stab at the victim,” and that’s exactly how it felt.

That wasn’t the worst part, however. The worst part was when four friends of the defendant gave evidence claiming that, prior to the attack on me, I had been going around abusing the protestors and filming although I’d been repeatedly asked not to. There was no video evidence of this because it simply didn’t happen, but the judge still chose to believe it.

In fact there is video evidence that, prior to the assault, I was nowhere near the protesters and was simply chatting to new acquaintances, but that footage wasn’t admitted in evidence nor were the witnesses invited to testify.

mumsiedarlingrevolta · 14/07/2021 12:29

@Nonmaquillee

Not only a poor attempt to gaslight the Canadian public, but also - crucially - to do the same with the poor little boy. Imagine: the boy tells police he was assaulted by a man. The perpetrator is found and identified. Police etc insist it was a female perpetrator. The poor little victim KNOWS it was a male. Everyone around him including the media collude in this. The little boy is NOT ONLY ASSAULTED but also LIED TO. I’m beyond appalled.
omg this 1000 times!!!

that poor poor child-how unfair and outrageous

surely common sense must prevail soon!!!!

Wombatstew · 14/07/2021 12:24

@Thevenerableswede

Furries no idea as I can’t seem to get access to my email account t the moment... the poll was at 100% with an admittedly small sample..that such threads should remain in AIBU
I think it’s still there www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4296377-AIBU-to-think-that-discussion-of-criminal-acts-towards-children-and-who-the-perpetrators-are-are-of-importance-to-MN-users-and-threads-should-remain-in-AIBU-with-polls-attached
Runningupthecurtains · 14/07/2021 12:11

How long until a (male) convicted as a female changes how they identify and uses that fact that witnesses etc say "woman" to launch an appeal? People are being forced to commit perjury with must make the resulting convictions unsound.

Furries · 14/07/2021 11:58

@Thevenerableswede

Furries no idea as I can’t seem to get access to my email account t the moment... the poll was at 100% with an admittedly small sample..that such threads should remain in AIBU
I’m tempted to start another one!
Furries · 14/07/2021 11:55

@FreeBritnee - there were quite a few, can’t remember them all.

Am not 100% sure of the rules on here? Am I allowed to name one person directly?

DialSquare · 14/07/2021 11:47

@yourhairiswinterfire

What sort of person, rather than be horrified and want to raise awareness of these issues, would report this post to be hidden away?

It's because stories like this are inconvenient to the people who love to tell us ''anyone is whoever they say they are and if you don't accept that you're a bigot''.

They also love to tell us that no man will go to the effort of saying they're a woman, have hormones, change their lives, etc. Our point is they don't have to change a fucking thing, as this proves.

This is the reality of ''anyone is whoever they say they are''. Instead of admitting that there may actually be a problem here, it's fingers in ears screaming 'blah blah blah'.

Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

Yep. Taking cognitive dissonance to another level.
FreeBritnee · 14/07/2021 11:44

The reporting is governed by the courts. I don’t think the reporters have any say in what they say when it comes to pronouns unless they leave them out entirely.

Thevenerableswede · 14/07/2021 11:44

Furries no idea as I can’t seem to get access to my email account t the moment... the poll was at 100% with an admittedly small sample..that such threads should remain in AIBU

yourhairiswinterfire · 14/07/2021 11:26

What sort of person, rather than be horrified and want to raise awareness of these issues, would report this post to be hidden away?

It's because stories like this are inconvenient to the people who love to tell us ''anyone is whoever they say they are and if you don't accept that you're a bigot''.

They also love to tell us that no man will go to the effort of saying they're a woman, have hormones, change their lives, etc. Our point is they don't have to change a fucking thing, as this proves.

This is the reality of ''anyone is whoever they say they are''. Instead of admitting that there may actually be a problem here, it's fingers in ears screaming 'blah blah blah'.

Out of sight, out of mind, I guess.

GromblesofGrimbledon · 14/07/2021 11:26

@AlfonsoTheMango

It's sensible to play devils advocate to cover all bases.

If this Ruby character is a transman like Buck Angel then the reporter should have written "female who identifies as a transman".

It's statistically very very unlikely to be a transman however, and accurate reporting in these cases would clear up any ambiguity. Women are on edge reading these reports because the current consensus in the media seems to be to report these crimes by using the perpetrators' preferred pronouns.

This is so wrong. It skews public perception, confuses people, and affords misplaced respect upon the worst of offenders.

"Male who identifies as a transwoman"
Or
"Female who identifies as a transman"

Along with the correct pronouns, not preferred pronouns (unless they held a GRC which is a whole other mess)

This is what is needed. When this started happening in the media I don't know, but it seems to be the current unwritten rule that has taken over!

FreeBritnee · 14/07/2021 11:24

Seriously? Do you think that hormones will make a woman look like a man?

I’ll admit I was really confused recently by someone who has detransistioned. I honestly wasn’t sure. But you’re right. The person I’m thinking of did still have feminine features alongside a low voice and stubble. That face has nothing feminine about it.