Is being trans a choice?

OP how do your thoughts about gender and transgender

Lead to your position that

Female people globally are vulnerable to males who rape

Only because they believe they are weak. But in fact they are just as strong as men (in general).

And additionally this belief is the fault of feminism

Even though the fact of males raping women goes back millennia, and happens all over the world..?

From personal experience as a trans person, I would say that being trans is no more of a choice than being gay, or what your natural hair colour is. You can't choose how you feel or who you are.

What is the universal experience that you share, as trans people?

So for you Enby a gender is like a special members club that has no relation to physical reality, no relation to stereotypes, you just feel around to see if you feel a psychic affinity with people who currently identify as members, and if you do you sign up, and if you don't you invent a new club just for yourself?

I have some questions. Why is wearing particular clothes "gender" expression though if gender is nothing to do with clothes? Why do people want to change their bodies on the basis of gender if gender is nothing to do with bodies? And why is which club you're in of any interest to anyone apart from yourself if it says nothing at all about your body, tastes, personality etc? What if I generally feel identity with people based on other shared interests, say common interest in stamp collecting - would that make me stamp collecting- gender? Facetious example but serious question. What in particular about some identity feelings makes them a gender and others not?

From personal experience as a trans person, I would say that being trans is no more of a choice than being gay, or what your natural hair colour is. You can't choose how you feel or who you are.

Also replying to @dyslek, identifying with/as a gender is just your own sense of what your gender is. If someone feels they are a man/male then they would identify that way. The way you choose to express your gender doesn't always need to correlate with that.

What the jeff is live as a gender though? You could do what most of us do, say I'm female and gender expectations are a load of crap, I'm going to do being female exactly by being just myself, and not trying to conform with anything at all.

But what is 'identifying with a gender'?

People would describe my cloths and behaviour and interests as being that of men, and I am VERY uncomfortable trying to be feminine, to the point of when I have realised that other people (well actually men) are relating to me as if I was feminine it does make me very uncomfortable and awkard.

But Im still a woman because I am female (and an adult)

A friend of mine said it this way ‘being trans is not a choice. What you do about it is a choice’

I think this sums it up perfectly. You could go through life knowing you are transgender (identifying as a gender which is not aligned to your biological sex) but you may spend your life trying to conform to the gender you were assigned at birth (due to your genitals). You would still be transgender but not actively seeking to live as the gender to which you identify for whatever reason. With the right support, awareness etc however you may try to live the life you feel like you should have been living all along.

Good points allmywhat and NecessaryScene

“I am a pizza and you are morally obligated to sprinkle cheese on me” - just fuck off.

[quote CuriousPanda]@DaisiesandButtercups
"Being trans is really only about a declaration, I wouldn’t actually have to do anything else, just say I’m a man with moobs and a mangina or that I am non-binary. I could continue doing everything else in my life just as I always have done."

And if you never had a partner yet, how is that any different from declaring yourself gay? Should everyone around you constantly question whether you're actually gay until you finally find a partner?[/quote]
A statement about what you subjectively experience is different from a statement about who you are, and it’s very different from a demand that others validate your concept of who you are by playing along.

“I like pizza” - who’s going to argue with that? It would be deeply rude to do so.

“I am a pizza” - I have a problem with this statement, because I don’t agree you are a pizza. I have a definition of pizza, I’ve seen pizzas before, you don’t meet the criteria.

“I am a pizza and you are morally obligated to sprinkle cheese on me” - just fuck off.

Feeling strongly that you want to wear things and do activities that are usually associated with the opposite sex is not a choice, demanding to be perceived as the other sex because of those feelings is a choice.

I watched Kinky Boots yesterday (it’s on the BBC iPlayer at the minute) and it was so refreshing to see the main character was clear throughout the film that he was a man who liked women’s clothes and how they made him feel, I’m not sure that film could be made now without being accused of being transphobic.

This.

No, I don't think being genuinely trans is a choice.

Transitioning is a choice, considering transfolk lived their whole lives as a member of their biological sex in years gone past.

I "happen to like things that society normally (or used to) associates with the opposite sex" but I am an adult human female aka woman and have never felt any issue with that, outside of the frustrations of being a woman in a misogynistic society. Aren't we trying to get away from random and harmful stereotypes anyway? I'd much rather people were themselves and showed their personality in their choice of clothes, hobbies, jobs in whichever way worked for them, irrespective of sex.

I personally believe that a small minority of genuine trans identifying people have gender dysphoria, a mental health issue, which is only a thing if you live by sex-based stereotypes and getting rid of them would help ease this. So I don't feel they have a choice and I put them in the same category as people with eating disorders, they need therapy, primarily.

I think for all the rest it's a lifestyle choice, that has got out of hand. I also think for many it's become linked to sexuality and for some, regressive imo, reason it's become more socially acceptable for young gay people to say they're trans rather than gay. I know increasing number of young women who would have presented as butch lesbians when I was their age who now say they are "transitioning". This just seems to involve calling themselves say George instead of Georgina and dressing very stereotypicaly male with shaved head and tattoos. I really don't see the difference and I don't think this is anything to do with gender dysphoria. Same with the beta male incel types dressing stereotypically female with or without breast implants.

I don't think there's such a think as "being trans". It's a lumping together of a variety of different things - some people have dysphoria about their body, some have a fetish, for some people it's a trendy way to be special, for some people it's a way of controlling others. I don't believe in trans, just like I don't believe in souls.

Same here, I completely agree with your post.

Having dysphoria is not a choice.
There are choices, though heavily peer influenced ones, around how you interpret those feelings and what you do about them.

And to some extent there is a feedback loop. If you interpret your dysphoria as "male brain in female body"/"I'm actually male", the human pattern matching computer will keep picking out patterns that match that conclusion, and specially if you socially transition and others address you as male that reinforces your feeling of being male and so reinforces the dysphoria when you are reminded your body is female. Whereas watchful waiting lessens the feedback loop so increases the chance you can move on from the dysphoria.

If you feel dysphoria but say okay, stuck with this female body, medical transition too medically unpleasant, but no need to pander to stereotypes in any way - you may be described as butch or heterosexual equivalent, not trans.

I think it's such a shame medical transition started to emerge just when we were starting to get to the point in time where being a butch woman/feminine man was not frowned on by society. Maybe we could indeed have got to a place where your dress sense and interests aren't expected to be confined by your sex. Instead we now seem to be in a place where children are being told to modify their secondary sex characteristics to match their fashion choices.

Dysphoria is a symptom. There will be an underlying cause probably found in childhood. Abuse, anxiety, society telling you that you are wrong. It isn't a stand alone condition
Trans that doesn't stem from dysphoria is more about choice and society. It appears that homophobic abuse is as bad as ever yet bring trans is celebrated
Girls are inundated with sexualised images and expectations. Identifying as trans gives them a ticket out of those expectations
For those who are consumed by fetish it provides a more wholesome cover
For those who hate women it's a way to throw abuse whilst claiming to be progressive

Does the answer to the question lessen the impact on women's rights, spaces and sport and on children's safeguarding? If it does then I'm all ears, because this is why I'm here. If it doesn't then, interesting as it might be, it's not a priority for me right now.

The comparison was made with "gay", and whether that's a choice.

The difference is that for "gay", it doesn't matter whether it is or not.

We dealt with the gay rights movement by establishing universal rights. Anyone can get married to anyone regardless of sex. You cannot be discriminated against for the sex of your partner.

No-one gets special privileges by calling themselves "gay", so there's no problem. People can choose to call themselves gay, despite not being, and... nothing happens.

And everyone being able to have a same-sex partner despite not being oriented that way causes no more problem than everyone being able to have an opposite-sex partner despite not being oriented that way. This universal rights expansion causes no direct issues.

For "trans" it becomes an issue because people think they need special rights for "trans" people. Which is going to make people choose to identify as it. "Trans people should be allowed into opposite-sex spaces", apparently. The whole thing falls apart, because you're attaching meaning to the label, so obviously people will choose to apply the label, as it gives them something. Lots of straight men want to get into female spaces. (Is that a "choice"?)

If you just stated what you want in form of a universal right - "anyone should be able to enter any space regardless of their sex, but we should retain the male and female labelling of spaces" - then it would make sense, and would avoid the need to debate what "trans" is, or if it's a choice. Still a bad policy proposal though.

I have to say, I'm not sure that ftm transitioner was typical. That particular poster was clear they were biologically female, although they identified as a man. Most people on this board would agree with that - the majority here believe that a person can't change sex, no matter how that person 'identifies' what hormones they take.

However, in general, a person who identifies as a man would consider their own relationship with a woman to be heterosexual.

A thread recently made me wonder. A person was saying that they identified as male, and they were having a relationship with a woman. They were complaining that their mother was "homophobic" and critical of the relationship since it was same-sex. But I couldn't help thinking, "if you are now male, how is it same sex ?"

My mind just goes blurry when this topic comes up. My granddaughter tells me that a lot of kids at school are trans, some are thinking of taking the medications and getting mastectomies because of this . Heaven help us .

In short.

Self ID which is s done deal all around the place means. Your question is irrelevant.

I say I'm a gay man. I go to s gay club. I'm obviously female. But my id must be respected.

And that's the end of it.