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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is being trans a choice?

208 replies

user888 · 13/07/2021 20:15

Spotted in Does anyone ever wonder how this will end? Thought it might be worth its own thread. Maybe not. We'll see.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/07/2021 15:51

Well something happened, and probably funded by the Christian right.

Why did all these progressive liberal women decide to do what the Christian Right wanted?

oldwhyno · 15/07/2021 15:38

I think it's a choice for some people but not for others.

I also think sexual orientation is a choice for some people, not for others.

Soontobe60 · 15/07/2021 15:06

@AquaTorfana

For those with gender dysphoria, it isn't a choice just like being depressed isn't a choice for someone with clinical depression. The transition is often the only method of treatment that's likely to work for someone with gender dysphoria.

Non-binary and other umbrella trans identities are absolutely a choice. They choose to identify as x because they feel x doesn't suit them. It's not dysphoria, it's an unwillingness to subscribe to gender norms and stereotypes and a conscious choice to distance themselves with pronouns and identity markers.

And yet GIDS claim that over 80% of those who present with GD grow out of it once they reach adulthood without the need for intervention apart from watchful waiting. Therefore one could only claim that transition is likely to work with a small number of people diagnosed with GD.
Soontobe60 · 15/07/2021 15:01

@notactuallylolling

A friend of mine said it this way ‘being trans is not a choice. What you do about it is a choice’

I think this sums it up perfectly. You could go through life knowing you are transgender (identifying as a gender which is not aligned to your biological sex) but you may spend your life trying to conform to the gender you were assigned at birth (due to your genitals). You would still be transgender but not actively seeking to live as the gender to which you identify for whatever reason. With the right support, awareness etc however you may try to live the life you feel like you should have been living all along.

Except no one is ‘assigned a gender at birth’. Everyone has their sex observed no recorded. Nothing to do with gender.
Datun · 15/07/2021 14:59

Wanting to be the opposite sex, obviously arises out of all sorts of things. Internalised homophobia, fetishism, gender dysphoria.

Saying you're the opposite sex is definitely a choice.

As is expecting other people to agree with you.

Especially when it reinforces sexism and damages women.

TheSlayer · 15/07/2021 14:58

Eyes down everyone.

Christian far right.
True trans aren't predators.

I suggest, disgusted, if you know how to sort the true trans from the predators you let the appropriate authorities know. As people are identifying as trans and damaging your cause.

Soontobe60 · 15/07/2021 14:52

That's why it's cruel to expect either gay or trans people to repress that part of their identity, to force them to live a lie
Homosexuality isn’t an identity. Just like being female or male isn’t. It just IS. Like blue eyes, or a big nose. I’ve never heard a gay man say that they ‘identify’ as gay.

Floisme · 15/07/2021 14:47

What happened was that women stopped putting up and shutting up. Nobody asked us how we felt about sharing our spaces and you have no idea whether there were any issues or incidents, because for years we smiled and pretended not to notice. Sometimes this was to be kind and sometimes it was because many of us had learned the hard way not to challenge. It was the epitome of entitled behaviour.

DisgustedofManchester · 15/07/2021 14:34

@TheSlayer

What is more likely? A whole load of women, usually progression and liberal woke up one day and went, ' I fancy being a big biggy bigot'. Then their friends who had previously been in the #bekind camp thought, 'wow biggity big bigotry looks ace. I'll try that to.

Or that trans activists directly impact and threaten women's sex based rights?

And yes, around two years ago I was sharing two spirit articles and defending the most discriminated against ever. But as a sports for girls and women advocate I started to see the cracks.

Still waiting for someone to change my mind. I'm afraid hyperbole and name calling doesn't work on me.

Well something happened, and probably funded by the Christian right. The equality act has been in place for over ten years that allowed trans people to self ID. No issues, no incidents. Male perverts continued pretending to be women, not trans women, to access single sex spaces. Your post is the definition of hyperbole and name calling.
DaisiesandButtercups · 15/07/2021 14:17

I think that the answer to the question must be that for some people it is a choice and for others it is dysphoria, a mental health condition requiring skilled and compassionate treatment on the NHS. Even with dysphoria surely then it is a choice to call yourself trans and perhaps also to sign up to gender identity/queer theory. There are other strategies for coping with dysphoria, psychological therapies which can support the acceptance of the body and the rejection of stereotypes.

TheSlayer · 15/07/2021 14:02

Progressive too
Would love a grammar only edit button.

TheSlayer · 15/07/2021 14:01

What is more likely?
A whole load of women, usually progression and liberal woke up one day and went, ' I fancy being a big biggy bigot'. Then their friends who had previously been in the #bekind camp thought, 'wow biggity big bigotry looks ace. I'll try that to.

Or that trans activists directly impact and threaten women's sex based rights?

And yes, around two years ago I was sharing two spirit articles and defending the most discriminated against ever. But as a sports for girls and women advocate I started to see the cracks.

Still waiting for someone to change my mind. I'm afraid hyperbole and name calling doesn't work on me.

Floisme · 15/07/2021 13:52

Yes indeed, my choice to support the rights and spaces of girls and women has been thoroughly thought out.

DaisiesandButtercups · 15/07/2021 13:50

@PrincessNutella

Anybody can say they identify as something they are not.
Yes this is true.
DisgustedofManchester · 15/07/2021 13:48

People are trans and people choose to be anti-trans. I am sure there are a small number of people, there are with all things, but I have yet to meet anyone with a personal reason for being anti-trans so its definitely a thought out choice.

IceLace100 · 15/07/2021 13:21

@Frenchfancy

I think for genuine "trans" people it is no more a choice than having an eating disorder is a choice.

I think there are others who chose it as a lifestyle choice.

I think there are others, particularly children, who have it chosen for them because they don't match what parents think are correct girl or boy behaviour or characteristics.

I'd agree with this.
PrincessNutella · 15/07/2021 12:59

Anybody can say they identify as something they are not.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 01:23

Yes it was panda.

user888 · 15/07/2021 01:22

No worries NG. Offhand I'd say it was the panda that posted that stuff, but alas I do not wish to wade through all that again to confirm.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 01:22

Ah the poster who said that is on this thread.

And I think the link in the OP is the thread it was said.

Sorry for confusion

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 01:18

Maybe apologies OP!

There's another thread on a similar topic and I mixed them up.

Genuine apologies. Will read the thread properly.

AquaTorfana · 15/07/2021 01:11

For those with gender dysphoria, it isn't a choice just like being depressed isn't a choice for someone with clinical depression. The transition is often the only method of treatment that's likely to work for someone with gender dysphoria.

Non-binary and other umbrella trans identities are absolutely a choice. They choose to identify as x because they feel x doesn't suit them. It's not dysphoria, it's an unwillingness to subscribe to gender norms and stereotypes and a conscious choice to distance themselves with pronouns and identity markers.

user888 · 15/07/2021 01:09

@NiceGerbil, none of that is me.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 01:02

Apologies - OP is on two threads.

It may be the other one where OP asserted that women aren't physically overall in terms of strength etc actually weaker than men.

And further that belief was patriarchal and a damaging misgynist idea promoted by feminists.

NiceGerbil · 15/07/2021 00:58

To say that the global and historical fact of male sexual violence esp rape

Is down to the billions of women that have ever lived incorrectly believing they were weak

And that this belief is the fault of... Feminists in a certain part of the world at a certain time..

Is grotesque misogyny.

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