Page 2 | Is being trans a choice?

user888 · 2021-07-13T19:15:25+00:00

Spotted in [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4295102-Does-anyone-ever-wonder-how-this-will-end?pg=10 Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?]] Thought it might be worth its own thread. Maybe not. We'll see.

learieonthewildmoor · 16/07/2021 11:07

If women were safe from male violence, then there would be no issue with people who read as male being in female spaces.
If women could safely share male spaces, there would be no issue at all.

The fact is, women are at risk from male violence. We teach girls to avoid the risk of being attacked. It’s gaslighting to suggest it isnt necessary.

Way off topic of the OP’s post.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 16/07/2021 08:15

I missed oblomov post

Its pretty much how i feel

A friend asked me a few years ago how what I thought about transwomen and at the end of the conversation told me that her son was wanting to transition, its been very hard for them all

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 05:38

@Oblomov21

I find these threads really hard to read and understand. I can't grasp the 2 very different viewpoints. I keep trying, read the Maya case threads. I just don't get how anyone can argue that sex is not biological, male v female.

And that being trans doesn't necessarily make you a woman. It seems a sad journey. You want something you can't have. Even after surgery, you still aren't what you want to be. Because you want the impossible. I can't suddenly become black. I just can't.

I'm starting to think most of it is just MH conditions, body dysmorphia etc that they hope will be resolved by the trans route, but few are. I'm sure a few are, but most aren't.

This has become more prominent in my RL because my close friend her ds announced he was trans last week. I'm so sad.

It is difficult, especially when they get derailed like this one has.

I'm reading the new Helen Joyce book Trans at the moment and it is reader friendly. It's impossible to jump right in as it is all so deliberately confusing.

I hope you and your friend can find common ground or at least agree to disagree. They are still the same personality you liked before.

IsItAKindofDream · 16/07/2021 05:27

@SpuriousPanda

I don't think imagination is a strength here

Or logic. Or comprehension. Or cultural awareness.

It’s such a shame. Someone could really advocate for Trans people’s needs - but instead, people like CuriousPanda actually make things harder for trans people by peddling ill-thought out ideas.

SpuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 05:24

I don't think imagination is a strength here

IsItAKindofDream · 16/07/2021 05:12

@CuriousPanda

Why would my mother be in jail?

I could have put money on you saying that instead of answering the question.

Or saying that your Mother is dead.

Anything to avoid answering the question.

Hypothetically, if you need it to be able to get your head around the question, you can assume that your mother has been jailed for a crime (possibly one she didn’t commit - for A Team fans).

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 05:08

Why would my mother be in jail?

IsItAKindofDream · 16/07/2021 04:50

[quote CuriousPanda]@IsItAKindofDream
^“He followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”
“She followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”.
Do those phrases make you feel different? Why?^

Literally stereotypes in action.[/quote]
So you would be happy with your mother (or other female relative) sharing a prison cell with a man?

IsItAKindofDream · 16/07/2021 04:44

[quote CuriousPanda]@IsItAKindofDream
^CuriousPanda wants men to be allowed to use female pronouns. I’m guessing they didn’t read (or understand) the Pronouns are Rohypnol piece fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/^

By the way, you could make literally the same argument for gendered clothes. "Oh, it might be confusing, that's why we need to uphold strict dress code"[/quote]
What are gendered clothes?
Many groups and cultures have men wearing skirts or dress-like items - kilts, sarongs, cassocks, longyi etc.
You don’t sound very culturally aware.

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 04:39

No idea who Ben Shapiro is.

But whatever.

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 04:38

Happy for all trans people to have third safe spaces tailored to their specific needs.

Not at the expense of women.

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 04:37

@IsItAKindofDream
^“He followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”
“She followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”.
Do those phrases make you feel different? Why?^

Literally stereotypes in action.

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 04:37

Oh, and of course, "facts not feelings", nice Ben Shapiro mantra, you sure love to borrow arguments and talking points from anti-feminist conservatives.

IsItAKindofDream · 16/07/2021 04:36

[quote CuriousPanda]@IsItAKindofDream
^CuriousPanda wants men to be allowed to use female pronouns. I’m guessing they didn’t read (or understand) the Pronouns are Rohypnol piece fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/^

Yeah, I know you've got lots of long-winded concocted essays on why your persistent bigotry is actually a-ok.[/quote]
For those without the time to read that piece, here’s an example of something to think about:

“He followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”
“She followed the 9-year old girl into the toilet”.
Do those phrases make you feel different? Why?

Curious - thanks for giving us a good opportunity to share the basics again with the lurkers.

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 04:35

@Chickenyhead

Why does this feel very much like mansplaining?

Gender critical means we do not subscribe to your gender theory.

We believe in sex.

We don't believe in stereotypes.

You are the one bringing up stereotypes.

We rely on facts not feelings.

Real stuff.

No, it means you hate trans people and want to force them to abide by the "sex-based" gender categories in accordance with their "birth sex" lol.

You know, just like how patriarchy has always done to men and women alike.

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 04:34

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 04:33

@IsItAKindofDream
^CuriousPanda wants men to be allowed to use female pronouns. I’m guessing they didn’t read (or understand) the Pronouns are Rohypnol piece fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/^

By the way, you could make literally the same argument for gendered clothes. "Oh, it might be confusing, that's why we need to uphold strict dress code"

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 04:32

Why does this feel very much like mansplaining?

Gender critical means we do not subscribe to your gender theory.

We believe in sex.

We don't believe in stereotypes.

You are the one bringing up stereotypes.

We rely on facts not feelings.

Real stuff.

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 04:29

@NiceGerbil

And reporting after the event is better than preventing that happening in the first place?

Cool.

By the way I assume you know that sex offences are massively underreported and rarely prosecuted.

Before is ideal, as soon as you get any indication of danger other that "I think this is a male". Report people for things they're actually doing instead of playing some sex-based Minority Report bullshit.

CuriousPanda · 16/07/2021 04:27

@IsItAKindofDream
^CuriousPanda wants men to be allowed to use female pronouns. I’m guessing they didn’t read (or understand) the Pronouns are Rohypnol piece fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/^

Yeah, I know you've got lots of long-winded concocted essays on why your persistent bigotry is actually a-ok.

IsItAKindofDream · 16/07/2021 04:27

@CuriousPanda

For people who go on and on about how you wish to "get rid of gender stereotypes", you simply can't rid yourselves of the stereotype that "males" are inherently sexual predators by default.

Guess what, for as long as you cling to that stereotype, you are not "abolishing stereotypes".

Men are not predators by default. Hope that helps.

Would you be happy with your sister / daughter / neice / mother sharing a toilet / dorm room / prison cell with a man? If not, why not?

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 04:26

Denying male violence is pathetic

Chickenyhead · 16/07/2021 04:26

Male will always be a sex.

Men's prisons 78k inmates

Womens 3.4k

By sex. Not gender.

NiceGerbil · 16/07/2021 04:25

@CuriousPanda

For people who go on and on about how you wish to "get rid of gender stereotypes", you simply can't rid yourselves of the stereotype that "males" are inherently sexual predators by default.

Guess what, for as long as you cling to that stereotype, you are not "abolishing stereotypes".

It's not a stereotype it's a fact. Globally and for millennia.

NiceGerbil · 16/07/2021 04:24

And reporting after the event is better than preventing that happening in the first place?

Cool.

By the way I assume you know that sex offences are massively underreported and rarely prosecuted.