Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

[quote CuriousPanda]@MidsomerMurmurs
Gender ideology can involve transing away the gay.
No one is basing gender identity on sexual orientation, and most trans people identify as bi or gay, not straight. Meaning that most of the time, transition is "transing" the gay in.[/quote]
You're presumably talking about adults. This isn't true of children, according to the Tavistock.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tavistock-gender-clinic-converting-gay-children-tz8cs77p3

The ability to live as equals with their cis counterparts, which is the very thing you oppose.

It's a very Animal Farm type of equality that's demanded though. See female sports as one example.

@Anotheeuser02
Me too. There will be more Wi Spa's, lots of busy lawyers, detransitioners will get louder.
Detransitioners are the ex-gays of this decade. A tiny minority among the tiny minority that is lovebombed for "rejecting the deviant lifestyle" and "returning back to normal", and subsequently weaponized against the larger "deviant" group.

What I think most realistically will happen is that the decimation of women’s sport will move more people into waking up. Depressing but more interesting to many than women’s rights and dignity.

Depressing that a possible fuss about a very heavily set team of beach volleyballers might actually be what it takes to wake some up about what is happening regarding women and sport. And women in general.

I’ll take it though.

Eyes wide shut at the moment.

What is 'trans acceptance' Blue? what rights do trans people not have?
The ability to live as equals with their cis counterparts, which is the very thing you oppose. This is like asking "what rights don't gay people have?" back when gay people could only form civil unions.

What stops trans people living as equals with everyone else? They are protected under the equality act and they can marry just like everyone else. They even get a special privilege that they can falsify their birth record if they want to, something that nobody else can do.

What trans rights do you believe we oppose? And what rights do they not have which everyone else does?

Please don't use the term 'cis' here. It's not something that people here identify with, and some find it offensive. It is also a banned term here so you may find your posts being deleted if you continue to use it.

@CuriousPanda Except for how it's ... not like that at all. Which rights, specifically, do trans people not have?

@MidsomerMurmurs
Gender ideology can involve transing away the gay.
No one is basing gender identity on sexual orientation, and most trans people identify as bi or gay, not straight. Meaning that most of the time, transition is "transing" the gay in.

I think it will get crazier before it gets better.

Me too. There will be more Wi Spa's, lots of busy lawyers, detransitioners will get louder. In the mean time more male violence will be recorded as woman on woman crime. The young who are apparently so much more compassionate and inclusive will gain life experience and out grow needing to be nice at their own costs.

@NonnyMouse1337
Given the existence of detransitioners, that's highly unlikely.
"Given the existence of ex-gays, mainstream acceptance of homosexuality seems unlikely"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex-gay_movement

@dyslek
What is 'trans acceptance' Blue? what rights do trans people not have?
The ability to live as equals with their cis counterparts, which is the very thing you oppose. This is like asking "what rights don't gay people have?" back when gay people could only form civil unions.

I wonder about this, and I worry. Obviously I hope sanity, reason and justice will prevail. But the world in general doesn’t have a great history in that department.

And this is like a civil war. Even if truth, reason and justice do win the day, we’re still going to have these hordes of people who have been (and currently still are) pushing lies, unreason and injustice for all they’re worth and conning themselves (and trying to con others) that what they’re doing is actually just and progressive. What happens to them?

How do they row back from that position? How does the Labour Party admit it was insanely wrong? The Greens, the LibDems, the SNP?

I think there would have to be a fair amount of 2), the way we’re seeing orgs withdrawing from Stonewall’s Diversity Champion racket on the pretext of budget reasons.

But what happens to the True Believers? Owen Jones, and his ilk, and all the other high profile transactivists? Plus the non-high profile ones on anonymous boards and all over sm who are none the less zealous. I don’t see them giving up on this, especially while the ideology still holds such sway in North America. I don’t see many of them having an epiphany and realising they’ve been backing the wrong horse here.

Although I do take heart from the number of women on here who say they were once True Allies, and then woke up and realised what was going on.

All this arises from misogyny, really truly deeply rooted misogyny, and that is still with us. Even if we win this, we will have to be prepared for the misogyny to just reassert itself in another form. I don’t know what it’s going to take for there to be a societal shift towards dismantling that misogyny at its root. Even recognising it. But that’s what needs to happen, ultimately, if we’re ever going to make any real progress.

I worry that the way it will end is with more abuses of women and children in public spaces that are even less safe for them. And these will gradually stack up in the public eye, changing opinion. It needs to become less fashionable for big business to do whatever the trans lobby want. I also (vainly) hope that trans activism becomes more about mental health and well-being provision, and for designated safe spaces for trans people, than about inhabiting womens sex segregated spaces.

What I think most realistically will happen is that the decimation of women’s sport will move more people into waking up. Depressing but more interesting to many than women’s rights and dignity.

Hopefully some balance will be found where people can outwardly present as they choose but we stop pretending biology doesn't exist and creating policy based around fiction.

Judging by the recent Wi Spa and Oli London situation I think it will get crazier before it gets better.

Actually no, that was too subtle.

Resting gender ideology is nothing like being pro Section 28 in the 80s and 90s. Gender ideology can involve transing away the gay. We know this from whistleblowers from the Tavistock. We know this from looking at Iran. Gender ideology is regressive, misogynistic and homophobic.

As the mother of a 6yo girl, and after a heated discussion with other Mum friends at the weekend who see nothing wrong with someone with male genetalia being able to access single sex (female) spaces and terms such as "pregnant person" the future scares me so much - especially as we live in Scotland.

Thanks to the women on the FWR boards (and Glinner) I'm so much more aware of the issues. 🌤️

A few odd comments! But…aren’t some manifestations of trans rights activism actually quite homophobic? Or is that phobia all right so long as it furthers men’s rights?

Acceptance would be fabulous.

Of course it would.

But no one is accepting that women have rights too.

You say we are unaccepting. I don’t think so.

Do you accept that our concerns and opinions are valid? Or are you unaccepting?

It certainly is feeling that way.

What transphobia ffs? Women having rights really seems an unbearable future to some.

The impact on women is real. If you care about inclusion, why aren't you interested in trying to aim for a future that works for everyone instead of trying to make those women shut up and hide their difficulties with male people being given total freedom that harms female people? Why is the utopia one where women just get under the bus and pretend they like being there?

This doesn't work for all women. That isn't going to go away. Until that is faced and compromises found, this problem will not end. I'd personally like a future where it did.

Obviously, this is a fight like no other. But at the same time, just like every other fight for women to be recognised as adult humans.
It's as old as humanity, but the internet has upped the stakes. It exposes the sinister side of the TWAW movement, yet they have captured our children.
Very scary.

However it ends, women will be worse off.

I predict an even stronger swing to the right. Stonewall and its ilk have done so much damage to LGB and trans rights with their insistence that people believe dogmas like TWAW and TWAM.

It won't end well.

4 please. End all this transphobia. Luckily it's mostly old people who read the daily Mail and like Piers Morgan so they'll die out