Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

Cross post with dyslek.

I must get to bed now though.

Do you think there is no issue with a woman being put in the same prison cell as say, a female rapist?

In British law, the offence of rape can only be committed by someone with a penis. There are no female rapists in UK prisons.

A woman can only be convicted of rape if she assists a rapist, for example by restraining the victim.

Or guarded by male guards, who rape female prisoners at far higher rates than trans inmates?

Do you have any links to statistics on that? I'd be interested in seeing them, especially following the recent judicial review where there appeared to be a high number of sexual assaults on female prisoners, but it wasn't clear whether they had been carried out by prisoners or guards.

Only a penis can rape in UK law. Females commit sexual offences at a tiny proportion of the rate men do (even though sex crimes are now recorded by self identified gender, which distorts the figures).

Once those children pushed towards life altering medicalisation by medical professionals (often against the wishes of their parents who support their children but would prefer a 'watchful waiting' approach) grow up and start suing the arses off everyone for the ruining of their health and fertility.

Once the social contagion in Schools dies down (where it has been described as being 'social suicide' to not describe yourself as somewhere under the 'queer' umbrella) and young people move on to the next big thing.

Once research is undertaken to investigate why so many females on the ASD spectrum in particular want to transition.

Once the long term effects of women essentially removing themselves from public life are realised. The quote 'for teenage boys, their world grows larger whereas for teenage girls, their world grows smaller' will soon apply to females of all ages.

Once Universities realise that a lack of free speech and on their campuses will hinder any meaningful research.

And most importantly, when the general public realise what's going on (and it's coming - people are starting to realise what's happening about sports, sexual predators taking advantage of self ID, prisons etc) and they realise that this isn't all about 'be kind'.

Once all this happens, there will be a backpedaling like no other. 'Didn't happen, nothing to see here'.

And women and girls will have to fight to re-establish rights which they previously had and the LGB community will have to fight against prejudice re-established by the damage done by this vocal, harmful ideology.

[quote CuriousPanda]@Itreallytiedtheroomtogether
And on your later point - why is any of this anti-trans? Where is your discussion on how this effects women and girls - we exist too and have equal rights to trans people.
How does recognizing trans women as women infringe on non-trans women's rights?[/quote]
Having the right to a same sex doctor for intimate examinations.
Having the right to a same sex domestic abuse practitioner when escaping a violent man.
Having the right to speak to a same sex police officer when reporting a sexual assault or rape.
Having the right to only be searched by a same sex officer if incarcerated.
Having the right to privacy and dignity from the opposite sex when vulnerable.

@dyslek
being locked in a prison cell with a rapist
Do you think there is no issue with a woman being put in the same prison cell as say, a female rapist? Or guarded by male guards, who rape female prisoners at far higher rates than trans inmates?

So what's your view on non binary or gender fluid identities Panda because what you stated doesn't really cover them. Should Pip Bunce be totally accepted as a woman on Wednesdays and a man on Thursdays, for instance?

@Itreallytiedtheroomtogether
And on your later point - why is any of this anti-trans? Where is your discussion on how this effects women and girls - we exist too and have equal rights to trans people.
How does recognizing trans women as women infringe on non-trans women's rights?

[quote CuriousPanda]@Itreallytiedtheroomtogether
Ex gays? Do you really think that wiki link is saying that there are a group of people who were gay and just realised one day they weren't? Do you, really?
No, I'm saying that it was a cynical conservative operation, and that there's a pattern of those who claim to have desisted from a "deviant" lifestyle being weaponized against those who continue to be gay/trans.

@FloralBunting
Usually it's by not being a really horrible homophobe who thinks gay and lesbian people need to be physically altered into cosmetically resembling the opposite sex.
That's a dishonest strawman that's been wholly refuted by trans people constantly, but you never acknowledged that, and I don't expect you to acknowledge it now either.[/quote]
Is there any evidence of this Conservative conversion cult? There was plenty of evidence of religious gay conversion. The problem is actually the reserve - disproportionate numbers of young girls are identifying IN to trans identities. Hence detransitioning.

And on your later point - why is any of this anti-trans? Where is your discussion on how this effects women and girls - we exist too and have equal rights to trans people.

[quote dyslek]@Blibbyblobby The problem is tho that most of this is driven by misogny so even if women re name themself so they can describe their oppression, men will still want to coopt whatever new identity woman create.
The hatered some men have for women drives them to litterly want to consume womenhood in the ultimate act of destruction/assimilation. That is the urge here and its not going to go away, even if women change thair name.[/quote]
Some men, sure. But not all of them, or even most of them.

Feminists originally articulated the difference between physical sex and socially imposed gender roles. It was a progressive insight that ones sex did not define anything about ones mental aptitudes and personality. This lead naturally to acceptance and welcoming of gender non-conformity by feminists.

Trans ideologues took this insight and distorted that to say that any acknowledgement of sex is regressive, allowing them to present the gendered personality as dominant.

At first glance this seems very similar to the Feminist perspective, and that has been the trap that allowed this regressive and anti-female movement to seem like a progressive one. But I believe most people, including the men, who support it do not do so out of misogyny but because they followed their first instinct to Be Kind and have not yet seen the regressive, sexist beliefs and contradictions at the heart of the ideology.

The hatred for and misrepresntation of so-called TERFs that flows from the ideologues is not, in fact, much to do with any fear of TERFs themselves. If it was real risk they cared about they'd be focussing on violent and toxic men, not a bunch of women with ribbons and stickers.

The focus on TERFs is simply the age-old tactic in religious social control of dissuading followers from certain dangerous thoughts by making an out group of the people who think them: "heretic", "blasphemer", "infidel", TERF". In this case, demonising TERFs prevents those well-meaning but superficial followers from even thinking about the implications of gender ideology for female people because once TERF thoughts are established as beyond the pale they will self-censor anything that seems a bit TERF-ish.

But that insight that sex and gender are different still lies under the distortion, and I think that is the key to moving past this. It is not the same as "just finding a new word/identity for women", it's more like just keep bringing the conversation back to the difference between sex and gender.

I think it's going to get a lot worse before the public outcry and the litigation finally puts a stop to it. I reckon there will be more of the behaviour seen outside the WiSpa, more threats, and public 'terf' bashings. I dont think there is going to be a longterm widespread acceptance of males in changing rooms but there is no room for complacency in the meantime.

In another 5 years or so, the full horror of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones will have reached the compensation courts and the 'alliies'will be running for cover.

They've been fed so much propaganda they don't even question it.

In the UK, it's just a constant flood of anti-trans rhetoric.

Most people would consider it a debate around clashing/competing rights. Which is how it should be in a decent functioning democracy.

I know it's inconvenient for some people that women have rights enshrined in law in this country.

I just don’t get this. The UK, which offers free hormones and Surgeries, no co pays, no deductibles. And where the general public accepts trans people going about their lives.
And we are the country with the problem?

Ha ha. You have no idea what you are talking about. Can you name the UK media outlets concerned and tell me what you believe their politics to be?