Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

I think trans people were accepted by most people, as others have said transwomen used the ladies without much issue

But then people who arent trans started pushing and pushing and then self ID was mooted….and honestly it’s understandable that people thought this was a good idea, but the same people were very naive if they thought that non trans people wouldn’t take the piss

And then sports and prisons…and even the most live and let live person started thinking ‘well this isn’t fair’

I don’t think this is going to end well either way

Refusing to see, and allow for, the difference between male and female bodies leads to massive disadvantages to the female people involved.

It’s so damn sexist to ignore all of that and pretend that terminology matters more than facts.

We never watched Game of Thrones when it was first on. But DH got sucked into watching replays with the DDs. Then he started streaming the whole lot from the beginning. I like the music and would be sitting reading and then find myself watching the odd bit. Anyway I was struck how (loosely) it must reflect how life was for women in the past. Whores. Slaves. Breeders. Strategic breeding stock to be married off for political reasons. And somewhere behind the scenes support workers, rustling up a huge banquet at a moments notice to celebrate winning a huge battle that could have wiped them out even as they were roasting the fatted calf.

Anyway, I think life for women is heading the same way now if it isn't already there.

Sex work is work✅
Breeders ✅
Support class of workers ✅

And that's just in the western world.
Other parts, of course, still have arranged marriage ✅ and modern slavery✅

Aside of all that I love the costumes Daenerys wears

Everyone with a Y chromosome that works and a body that responds to it is male.
Everyone else is female.

I think that when the compensation cases start coming through from detransitioners, and they will, it will really be painful for many people to acknowledge that they supported purely affirming treatment.

I honestly think it foolish to believe it is only ‘old’ people fighting this. They are forgetting this current cohort of teenagers who are being harmed, even if it this harm is restricted to severe mental health issues, will start reaching the age where they process exactly what has happened.

I expect that they are going to be furious. Absolutely furious to think that adults were advocating such poor health standards for them.

And that governments allowed their hopes of equality to have regressed.

If you honestly think it is only ‘old’ people fighting this, you need to pull your head out of the sand. And probably stop reading social media echo chambers.

Well, I am curious now panda.

Which people with DSDs are NOT either male or female? And do you think needing those people’s medical conditions to describe trans people’s bodies is an abhorrent use of those people and their bodies? Only a small proportion of those with DSDs are trans.

We hear this constantly from people with DSDs that they are not on this earth to be useful to explain gender identity. Maybe you missed those requests.

Like Sonari said, TRAs like to tell themselves that those standing up for women’s rights, sex based rights and the safeguarding of children are all middle aged/older women.

This simply isn’t true - young people get it, my own teenage DC get it. Gay men get it. Young lesbians get it. Older males get it.

Most people know that people can’t change sex and that women need protecting from predatory men and children need safeguarding.

I don't thinkPandahas the first clue about the UK or UK law.

Also this.

I know it's inconvenient for some people that women have rights enshrined in law in this country.

Yes.

I think the juggernaut will continue to wipe out women’s rights for some years to come.

Eventually, the weight of medical evidence will be assessed following the lawsuits of thousands of detransitioners, who are physically damaged (unlike anyone who claims to be ex-gay - though the link provided suggests those are religious nutters and nothing like the rational young women in the Trans-Train TV program and other places)

Proper examination of the evidence will reveal the fact that physically modifying the body in an attempt to alleviate mental distress is both ineffective as a long-term treatment and the newly sprung branch of medicine, that has grown up so fast, will wither away again as the scandal hits home.

“Being trans” as a thing (as opposed to a mental health problem related to distress at one’s sexed body) will stop being popular amongst children and teens. Something else (hopefully less damaging) will take its place.

And then we will be left in a world where rapidly passed laws, with huge loopholes used by men to abuse women, will have to be protested and repealed.

Honestly not sure how western civilization will look afterwards. Who knows what laws might replace those ushered in by transactivist lobbying. This feels like a very unstable period in time, and though I don’t believe the trans agenda will prevail, there’s no telling what will replace it if another group seizes upon the unrest this has created, possibly using the same tactics that have allowed this regime to progress as far as it has.

I have children and can only hope for the best. They all view transactivism as illogical and anti-woman, so I know that not all of the younger generation are captured.

Trans women suffer some of the same forms of oppression as female people

What is an example of the same oppression transwomen and women share that is not shared with men?

How does recognizing trans women as women infringe on non-trans women's rights?

My god I find this level of wilful ignorance offensive.

Oppression based on workplace discrimination due to pregnancy, childbearing, breast feeding and limitation of career prospects due to being of child bearing age.

Oppression due to limitations being placed on bodily autonomy (abortion laws, vaginal examinations by medical students when women are unconscious etc).

Oppression due to women's health not being taken seriously. It can take up to 20 years for endometriosis to be diagnosed as heavy periods/pain are just 'to be expected'. Birth injuries are minimised.

Transwomen will not experience these oppressions because they are predicated on a person's sex I.e. those who are adult human females.

a transgender woman : a woman who was identified as male at birth

There's something wrong with your dictionary. Definitions shouldn't contain obvious contradictions.

The same dictionary defines 'woman' as 'an adult female person'.

So it says that a transgender woman is an adult female person who was identified as male at birth.

Since people can't change sex, this definition is incorrect.

Trans women face much of the same forms of oppression directed at women. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Oh, and that doesn't answer the question:

Do you accept that if a group of people have been given a "socially constructed label built around sex" and oppressed for generations under that label, being the subject of shared oppression is in itself a meaningful basis to self-define, organise and self-support as a group?

You seem to think preemptively claiming it's "offensive" to point out the glaring flaw in your definition somehow changes the fact that there's a glaring flaw in your definition.

Do you think people with DSDs aren't either male or female?

Trans women face much of the same forms of oppression directed at women. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Nope. You must have missed my earlier post where I explicitly acknowledged that trans women also face challenges.

Trans women suffer some of the same forms of oppression as female people.

However they do not, by definition, suffer any form of oppression that is due to the physical capabilities of the female body, the interaction between the female reproductive role and the structures of our society, or the social pressures and gender stereotypes applied to the female body.

You just refuse to acknowledge it.

Simple, can a trans woman simply live her life as a woman without facing harassment and abuse, being villified as "fetishistic perverted degenerate" and without her existence becoming the subject of a moral panic?

Lol, welcome to womanhood. Harassment and abuse? Check. Vilified? Check. Fetishized by perverts? Check. Existence subject of moral panic? Check.

I know the Fetishized part is a little different to what you wrote. Blame it on the sex based differences in paraphilias 🤷‍♀️

If males of any gender could stop the above, that would be a great start, no?

@Aparallaxia
Men have a Y chromosome. Women do not. [Let us not invoke intersex people here; they are fed up with being dragged into someone else's problem.]
How convenient. You seem to think preemptively claiming it's "offensive" to point out the glaring flaw in your definition somehow changes the fact that there's a glaring flaw in your definition.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trans%20woman
a transgender woman : a woman who was identified as male at birth

Trans women are adult human females.

Nope, all of those are gender, i.e. socially constructed labels built around sex that are not inherently part of sex.

What in your view is inherently part of sex, if anything?

Do you accept that if a group of people have been given a "socially constructed label built around sex" and oppressed for generations under that label, those people experienced real oppression even if the original basis for the oppression was a flawed social construction, and being the subject of shared oppression is in itself a meaningful basis to self-define, organise and self-support as a group?