Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

Speaking of dystopian outcomes, I remember reading this article 15 years ago and not knowing whether to be horrified at the suggestion or horrified at myself for possibly agreeing with the suggestion:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6057734.stm

Apologies for the de-rail. As you were...

I reckon your crystal ball has it highame

I've been mulling this over for a while, well not exactly this but near enough.

My view is dystopian based on the fact that all this trash is tied up with US tech companies. Everything is being politicised to the detriment of some groups such as women. These companies have so much cash that in the future they will bankroll all of those who agree with them. The rest will become and underclass who will eventually form a resistance and suddenly we'll have a star wars scenario. We will take our army of women (and like minded men) and blow up the supercomputers and put the likes of Mark Zuckerberg on trial for crimes against humanity. Traaaalaaa

That came out wrong I meant to say "Would someone please tell me about Biology in schools and what is taught".

Would someone tell me what is taught in Biology in schools?

I and many other people outside the feminist movement can see the injustice.
I and others do stand up and shout, sorry if you can't see past your prejudices and think about this clearly.

To the poster who says they would have stood with us shoulder to shoulder and fought for single sex spaces if only we had asked nicely... women were called TERFS and bigots and evil for asking for a mixed sex third space and saying we would happily fight shoulder to shoulder with our trans brethren for this. This was like five years ago and running.

Don't fight for us please. Take your pity and conditions elsewhere. Please fight for Trans rights - Fight for a third space, fight for Stonewall to use it's massive budget to setup refuges etc. Make them accountable for fighting for making LGB & Trans people's lives better instead this weird thing they are doing of destroying everything they touch.

Regarding the future, I am very pessimistic. The freedom we have all had is a fleeting drop in the last 3-5000 years of history. It will get pushed back big time for us all non-default-men.

[quote Leafstamp]@Imasoulman

Just wondering if you had this happen to you at school, or even in a workplace: a group of decent people successfully campaign for a change or flexing of a rule. For a while it works, people behave themselves and everyone is relatively happy. Then some people start taking liberties and taking the piss - pushing boundaries and asking for yet more.

Then what happens is the Head Teacher, or the company boss say, “right, you haven’t behaved responsibly and in the spirit of what we originally agreed to so tough luck, we’re going back to how it was before”.

The minority spoil it for the majority.

This is what I think has happened with trans rights. Although sadly I’m not so sure those that have spoiled it are indeed the minority.[/quote]
Absolutely this, yes you are spot on

Are they unable to see what we see?

Please god that wrecking ball swings hard and fast because I can’t help feel, that despite our best efforts, we are failing children.

I hope you are seeing this First Minister.

Do you see what we see?

A six year old boy has been told that he was assaulted by a woman. The police believe there are other victims who presumably will be told they were mistaken if they say a man assaulted them.

If a generation of children survive a childhood of institutional gaslighting I think when they are adults they will do that thing that children do when they decide to put right the wrongs of their youth. The pendulum will swing so hard in the opposite direction it will be a wrecking ball.

twitter.com/hjoycegender/status/1415055170493468674?s=21

But mainly because men want it and benefit from it. The detriment to women and children is also appealing to plenty of men without trans IDs

YY

The hysterical trendiness feels temporary to me though, at my workplace it's pretty insane.

I think I didnt express myself well sorry, the issue won't disappear because women's rights are forever under attack but I think the idiots like those at my work adding pronouns to everything will move on - because actually they don't really care about the issue, it's just what they think they should be rabbiting on about.

The darker side of things and the attacks on those of us who want to protect women's safe spaces will remain. But as a DV survivor, I do it think this is a battle we will never stop fighting due to the nature of some men.

And it won't go away as

There are people with sex dysphoria
GNC people still get shit and this approach makes them feel more in control

But mainly because men want it and benefit from it. The detriment to women and children is also appealing to plenty of men without trans IDs

For teens it does seem to be like the music tribes when I was young. In DDs friendship group at school about 10 or 12 children, they all have a trans ID of some type.

They are definitely the children who would have been 'alternative' when I was a teen.

This idea that every single person who identities as trans must feel this deeply and no one would ever state a trans ID otherwise is strange. People are complicated.

Incidentally given what you said. Why are women who say hold on a sec, what about this... Who fall under the stonewall trans umbrella. TOLD that they are cis?

How does that fit with your comment?

Honestly I think the next 'in' thing will come along and this will all be side lined.

This honestly to me just sounds like someone that I know that says that "everyone seems to be gay or lesbian nowadays."
With absolutely no thought that maybe, just maybe, it might be because it's more accepted nowadays so they feel they are able to be?

I was at school and college with out gay boys and lesbians.

When I was growing up it was

Loads of anti racism music
Loads of women who smiled and were silly and... Yes there was always pressure on line looks but we had women with all sorts of looks
It was kind of more relaxed I suppose.

New romantics obv.

And mainstream fucking awesome music which was either subtly or overtly about gay rights / or just happened to be gay and on TOTP.

Remember the awesomeness of small town boy? A hit. Mainstream. The sharing the apple at the end.

You had boy George, Marilyn, Steve strange. fgth etc etc.

Men in makeup and frills and women who did not adopt a submissive gaze but met you in the eye...

In those days trade was going, the gay scene was exciting. There were gay men in entertainment all over the place.

In terms of rights, the NF were active. Riots. Recession. Thatcher. All those mates of saville were doing their thing and everyone turned a blind eye...

It was a different time but it's not history.

The blanket view of how it was does not apply everywhere.

The backlash to all that freedom and activism came in the mid 90s and it all went to shit.

And now in my industry. Loads of openly gay men. Fuck all openly lesbian women.

So a mixed result in the end.

I think the answer to this is if men want to attack women and girls they will anyway so what's the problem... Yep that'll win hearts and minds.

Isn't this basically the same as saying 'men will attack trans women anyway whether they are sharing men's spaces or not so why bother making such a push to let trans women into female spaces?'

Of course it is. It's just you aren't even allowed to suggest the second scenario...

Also, completely disregards a whole range of behaviours that make women feel uncomfortable but which might be hard to prove - from voyeurism to domination and taking over spaces, from peeing all over the loo seat to thinking its hilaire to peer over the top of a door whilst a woman is on the loo (yup, happened to me....)

Honestly I think the next 'in' thing will come along and this will all be side lined. My work is super woke but I've deleted the pronouns bit from the signature and every day I notice other people who have too(it comes with pronouns line you have to delete!). The more it is pushed , the more people realise what's going on and decide to quietly push back

The death and rape threats directed to women. By those who were apparently fighting for the right to access etc...

It's how men behave. and these ones want or support self ID.

See the problem?

Women know a threat when we see it. We have learnt to often the hard way.

It is quite frankly dishonest to pretend this is about a vulnerable group of people who are all lovely

When we all know that self ID is already happening, in loads of places, and there is no way to tell who is what. And if you could then what?l

(I think the answer to this is if men want to attack women and girls they will anyway so what's the problem... Yep that'll win hearts and minds..)

The definition of trans is very broad and in practice all over the place it's already self ID in the UK.

I suppose you could choose to, in the modern lingo, identify as gay if you were straight quite easily if you didn't date or shag anyone.

I mean in theory.

And that's the difference between is X and identify as X. Not the same.

With trans IDs it's invisible, how you feel.
You can 'present' as masculine or feminine. Switch on different days if that fits. Ditto makeup, growing a beard, anything.

You can be a female person who identifies as a transman with no hormones surgery etc and a feminine presentation.
And for male people vice versa.

You define your identity. That's that.

You can be non binary and choose whichever stuff depending on where you feel most comfy. Again presentation is not prescribed.

There was an interview with a (?) non binary chap with a good job meaning suited and booted. Liked to wear lipstick sometimes at the weekend. Which changing room? Up to them.

And then there's people like me who according to stonewall are trans. But get told we are cis. And are female and under no illusions about how many creepy men are about and the lengths they will go to, to do their pervy thing.

Of course the 70’s and 80’s are part of our history! And we learn from history. For instance we know Alan Turing agreed to court ordered cross-sex hormones to “cure” his homosexuality, and now Mermaids introduces children to GenderGP for the same reason.