Does anyone ever wonder how this will end?

Yes I see!

Sadly what women say and want does not carry nearly so much weight as what men say and want.

Yes it's depressing but the fact is while it's mainly women speaking out nothing is likely to change.

The responses (usually) to men who say something about this and women shoes it up. The men tend to get I disagree have you thought about xyz. The women get a raft of often sexually violent threats.

Shit isn't it.

Sad, but probably true that unless men notice we will likely lose this one

Thank the lord at last some men to put it alright.

I'm a bit dim! What's ironic?

Sorry brain not working!

Panda in loads of countries with a rape it was only prosecuted if it could be proved the victim had fought.

From your perspective that would be s feminist law designed to reverse the damaging idea put about by feminists that on the whole women are not as physically strong as men, and empower them to overcome their psychological block and thus often physically overpower their assailant..?

That's s guess. Don't think you've responded to what it means for male violence against female humans with your view.

Do you think female rape victims are capable of fighting off their assailants if only they believed in themselves?

Now if only people could also respect and accept trans women in spite of the differences...

People do respect trans women as trans women and as humans and as brave males and as individuals.

Challenging the ideology that asserts trans women’s identity as women over the lived experience of the female sex is not disrespect of trans women as individuals, it’s disrespect of a regressive ideology that lies and divides.

It is not a mark of disrespect to refuse to deny ones own story and ones own reality to accommodate someone else’s ideology no matter how strongly they feel it.

But the people who spread the lie that the only way trans people can be accepted is to deny female reality, and by doing so cause distress to both trans people and female people by making compromise and common ground impossible? Well they deserve no respect.

No, it’s not lack of respect for trans women.

Nor is it the existence of differences between trans women and female people that are the problem. There are plenty of differences between individual women.

The problem is the lack of commonalities.

But prove me wrong. Tell me what trans women have in common with all women but with no one else? Not just which labels they choose, because those are just words, but the characteristic unique to that group that the label labels, the thing that makes them women?

And while we are at it, what’s the word for all adult human females that labels them just for their sex, regardless of their gender? Because we all know that group shares significant commonalities, all that’s missing is the name because the ones they had were stolen.

Anyway

DH said to me yesterday he thinks the TRA have overstepped themselves with sport and prisons and children so the end of this nonsense could be in sight

He isn't alone in his make friendship group thinking this way

We do fully respect them

Just as transwomen

What more is there ? What exactly more do you want?

Women are not inferior

But they are statistically physically weaker

They are capable of giving birth.

Not inferior just different

Respect and accept the true differences

but don't add value judgement and additional made up differences

Is that really hard?

I don’t think I can take anyone seriously who doesn’t accept as a material reality that women on the whole are smaller and weaker than men. It’s flat earth territory.

I’m hoping we can get round to sex and gender identity being completely different things. It is the basis of being trans after all.

So, in an ideal world we’d reach the point where: people live their best lives expressing their gender however they feel while sex is respected and different biological needs catered for.

People accept trans women (&trans men) for who they are and they happily use toilets etc. of their sex because everyone knows that ‘male’ or ‘female’ is not a judgement, just a biological fact.

All males are fully accepting of other males expressing themselves however they wish so no one is afraid or abused.

Panda has fixed interpretations of words that are bound up with negative emotions so can't read or interpret a word in it's emotionally neutral form.

So "fetish" is shameful despite mutually consenting adults on FetLife not feeling shameful, and some finding the shame a positive sexual experience a la Grayson Perry. Panda assigns negative shame to anyone mentioning fetish despite the explicit inclusion of transvestites in the trans community, thereby capturing Stonewall/Beaumont et al in pandas shameful bigot net.

The same goes for female versus male physical capacity, which is simply a neutral objective reality which has perfectly rational legal discrimination exemptions, panda can only read this as a negative criticism of women (despite actually wanting the exemptions to apply to them too).

As mentioned earlier there's a lot of very confused thinking.

'TalkingtoLangClegintheDark
I'm literally opposed to the notion that "women are inherently weaker^, I'm opposed to the constant assertions of male physical superiority that you keep making.'

As I mentioned on the other thread.

You believe that women all over the world and through history in any situations have only been brutalised because of a belief that are weaker...

That without that belief major atrocities would not have happened?

The rape of Berlin
DRC
Comfort women
Etc.

Rape as a weapon of war is down to women feeling they are overpowered and that's a psychological limitation?

You think that women being gang raped, watching their daughters being gang raped.. they never bother fighting?

Or is it only one on one you're thinking of.

If only the woman recently murdered by s serial sex offender had s different mindset eh. She wouldn't be dead.

Do you REALLY HONESTLY believe what you're saying?

Panda’’s bullshit reminds me of those MRAs back in the 70’s (they were called MCPs back then) who said that if women weren’t able to do absolutely everything men could do that meant we really were inferior and didn’t deserve equal rights.

So you had a tennis match between a man and a woman and when the woman lost it was “proof” that men were superior.

There was no room for the idea that women and men could have different physical capacities and therefore different needs while still having the same fundamental, intrinsic worth as human beings. While still being equally deserving of the same human rights.

Panda’s post is straight out of that playbook. Starts with the same assumption that relative physical vulnerability = inferiority. True MRA warrior.

This. Such a perfect explanation.

I'm opposed to the constant assertions of male physical superiority that you keep making.

Well yeah, I think it’s a bugger, too, but it’s one of those inconvenient facts.

I’m opposed to women getting periods, and pregnancies, and the damn menopause when smug blokes don’t have too, as well.

I don’t think that biology is going to pay much attention to any of that though.

And physical differences do not make us less worthy, less human or less valuable, as other posters are pointing out.

@CuriousPanda

On what are you basing your assertion that there’s no physical strength difference between males and females? Do you have any actual proof or is this in fact an ideological assertion you assume must be true because your beliefs demand it is so?

(Note I say “strength difference” not “superiority”. Despite your repeated attempts to put the word into others’ mouths, the only poster equating male strength with male superiority on this thread is you.)

@TalkingtoLangClegintheDark
What type of person has a vested interest in denying the very real material differences between male and female human bodies,

You could literally take this one straight from a pre-2015 anti-feminist MRA rant. "How unreasonable these feminists are to not recognize that women are inferior".

Now you're making that very same MRA argument, but pretending it's feminist instead, and that it's those who deny women's supposed physical inferiority are the "MRAs" instead.

@TalkingtoLangClegintheDark
I'm literally opposed to the notion that "women are inherently weaker, I'm opposed to the constant assertions of male physical superiority that you^ keep making.

Panda’’s bullshit reminds me of those MRAs back in the 70’s (they were called MCPs back then) who said that if women weren’t able to do absolutely everything men could do that meant we really were inferior and didn’t deserve equal rights.

So you had a tennis match between a man and a woman and when the woman lost it was “proof” that men were superior.

There was no room for the idea that women and men could have different physical capacities and therefore different needs while still having the same fundamental, intrinsic worth as human beings. While still being equally deserving of the same human rights.

Panda’s post is straight out of that playbook. Starts with the same assumption that relative physical vulnerability = inferiority. True MRA warrior.

(Interestingly in those heady days there was never any notion of men having to prove they were just as good as women. Men have never been derided or belittled for the fact they are definitively incapable of creating new life within their bodies, in the way that women have been derided and belittled for being weaker in terms of brute force, for the average women being generally incapable of overpowering the average man. As Panda has effectively done here.

Almost like the whole of society is and has been predicated upon this notion of implicit male superiority, which someone like Panda is really very comfortable with.)

What type of person has a vested interest in denying the very real material differences between male and female human bodies, and the way those material differences have been used and exploited by the male sex (as a class) to control, oppress and abuse the female sex (as a class) in an endless variety of ways since the beginning of recorded time?

What type of person? Hmm?

You believe in things that feminists have historically fought against.

Lying again, Panda?

Quelle surprise.

back atcha, Eresh