Question re relationships with trans people

I know I don't need to as it doesn't affect me. It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

Men and women who state they are trans, are stating they belong to/subscribe to a particular ideology. A religious ideology. That's off putting for many people.

Worldwide.

For many reasons.

It's a universal fact that many people reject religions/religious oppression.

Agree, or disagree, it doesn't matter. It's just is what it is. For billions of people.

It is very much the reason that transgenderists condemn, threaten and (social media, computer age) "cancel" trans-sexuals who understand they ARE the sex that they are.

They MUST stay in their sex-segregated lanes.

They must NOT compel others to stay in relationships with them to "validate" them.

They must NOT compel false speech from most of the anyone else.

It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

You find it hard to understand that, for example, a lesbian wouldn't want to be with someone who was biologically male and had male genitalia?

Based in sex.

I have read it and I understand it.

This was a quote showing the difference between gender and sex.

Groan

I consider sex and gender to be entirely separate.

Yes. Because sex is a real, fixed, biological, binary trait. Gender is a made-up label based on a bunch of stereotypes and personality traits which are not fixed and vary from person to person, culture to culture, era to era and also often age to age within an individual person's lifetime. Which seems a very good reason for it not to trump or infringe sex-based rights.

It just makes it even harder to grasp that people say they wouldn't ever be with a trans man or woman because they're trans.

They're not saying it's because they are "trans", the straight, gay and lesbian people are saying that it's because they're the wrong sex as they don't fancy either women or men depending on their sexuality. Can you really not grasp that most people have fixed sexual orientations?

As a hererosexual female, i wouldnt be sexually attracted to a transman no matter how masculine they looked and its not just about the genitals. Neither would i be attracted to a trans woman even if they looked very masculine because i would not find the imitation of femininity or stereotyoes very attractive. However i have dated men in make up and androgynous clothes . I dont feel this is transphobic , its a mismatch between what you know, see and feel and what the person says they sre that maked sexual attraction a difficult obstacle to overcome for most people

Chickenyhead, suggest you read the actual Equality Act 2010, which is freely available online, and you'll see it says nothing at all about trans people requiring a GRC to be protected from sex discrimination.

It doesn't have to. A GRC means that a person has a different legal status, under the GRA. For most purposes in the EA these people are treated as their "acquired gender" (legal sex). There is nothing wrong with what chickenyhead said. Potentially anyone is protected from discrimination on the grounds of being mistaken for someone with a different protected characteristic. It's not exclusive to trans people. Being mistaken for a gay person doesn't make a straight person actually gay.

It's the act of discrimination that matters in law, and that's how it should be, because clearly the employer here is still out of line and shouldn't get off scot-free just because he mistook his target.

Yes, that's what I said

You don't need to understand it Bi.

It just is what it is.

Bi-sexual people have their own "I don't want to/will never date/don't fancy such-and-such people"

You are bi-sexual chicken: What you mean is you will have sex with people of both sexes.

Other people are Heterosexual. They will only have sex with opposite-sexed adults.

Other people are Lesbian, or Gay. They will only have sex with same-sexed adults.

No, I think you misunderstand me. I understand that hetro people are attracted to opposite sex etc, but since I am not only attracted to one sex, it's very difficult for me to understand how/where people draw the line or can say that they aren't attracted to insert group of people

I think what I am saying is, my sexual orientation is for either sex, thus encompasses all genders by default.

But if your sexual orientation is for one sex, your likely gender pairing will be appropriately limited.

I consider sex and gender to be entirely separate. One biological, one social.

I have had sexual relationships with both men by sex and women by sex. It depends, for me on the individual.

So, even though I do not have a gender identity, it is fully possible that I could and would have a relationship with a trans person.

I just don't have ANY personal gender identity, not even as a woman. Because I only know what it feels like to be me. I have NO IDEA what others feel like. I am identity LIMITED.

Ereshkigalangcleg

"I don't know how anyone can say that they would or wouldn't date a person they don't know."

Because most people know their own sexual orientation. I would never date a female person, because I am heterosexual.

Yes. Very much so.

Not including bi-sexual people: Straight, Lesbian and Gay people will ONLY romantically date/have sex with Females, or males, according to their Orientation.

It really is that simple.

I don't know how anyone can say that they would or wouldn't date a person they don't know.

Generally if someone is heterosexual, they only date people of the opposite sex to them. Since that is literally what 'heterosexual' means. So surely it's not terribly surprising if they exclude all people of the same sex as them from their dating pool (without having met them)? That obviously in no way means that they would automatically date absolutely anyone who was the opposite sex from them!

So nobody is going to choose specifically who to date without meeting them. But they can probably exclude a few categories without meeting the individuals. For example I wouldn't date women (because I'm not a lesbian). For very different reasons, neither would I choose to date axe murderers, smokers, drug addicts, 20 year-olds or 80 year-olds (I'm 49). I can very confidently say that without meeting them individually.

" I think so many people now spend their lives hunched over their phones looking at tiny 2D images that they've forgotten what it's like to meet someone in the flesh where you instantly receive far more information from gait, stance, presence etc. The kind of information that indicates male/female very quickly in most situations."

Yes. Definitely.

I believe that transwomen are women and vice versa- and if they need to access services for the appropriate gender

This is a statement of faith. You are saying that anyone who claims to be a woman, is a woman, just because they say they are.

There are few services "for the appropriate gender" and they would be set up by trans activists. Most single sex services are for the appropriate sex. Nothing to do with gender identity.

I don't know how anyone can say that they would or wouldn't date a person they don't know.

Because most people know their own sexual orientation. I would never date a female person, because I am heterosexual.

It also applies to a white person mistaken for a BAME person and discriminated against on that basis. Because the purpose of it is to tackle discrimination, not to provide a gotcha argument for trans activists.

Sexual orientation is based on external physical characteristics, not gametes and chromosomes.

The core of your external physical characteristics are CAUSED BY gametes and chromosomes. It's why shoulders/arms/hands are invariably a dead giveaway on a trans woman. It's why so many dating sites include height/build.

I'm a heterosexual woman (using the definition understood by the vast, vast majority of English speakers over the centuries ie a biological female) and am attracted to the physicality of men, and how their phsyique is different to mine. My bloke is the same height as me, but has a classic male torso with broad shoulders. And proper big men's hands. As I'm not a lesbian, I can't fancy trans men as I'm just not attracted to female bodies; they might have removed the breasts and have a synthetic hormone-induced beard (can't stand facial hair), but they still have a female outline. Maybe it's an evolutionary instinct based on silhouettes.

Maleness is also about more than obvious height and strength; I find Ben Whishaw incredibly attractive although he is slight; he is very definitely male. See also Orlando Bloom in his pretty elven Legolas days.

I think so many people now spend their lives hunched over their phones looking at tiny 2D images that they've forgotten what it's like to meet someone in the flesh, where you instantly receive far more information from gait, stance, presence etc. The kind of information that indicates male/female very quickly in most situations.

Likewise, if a trans woman is discriminated against by someone who thinks she is a natal woman, she's protected under the same sex discrimination laws as a natal woman.

This would apply to any male, if they were mistakenly perceived as a woman on sight or due to some other reason and discriminated against on that basis.