Question re relationships with trans people

My lesbian friend who is married to a trans woman isn't bi, though. She's a lesbian. She doesn't fancy men. She has never fancied men. But she is attracted to her wife, who she has never thought of as a man. I'm bisexual. I'm attracted to men and women. She isn't.

So yes, excluding them under the pretense of "same-sex attraction" is transphobic.

"Pretence"

That's grim.

Are you surprised people don't give a shit about the stupid sin word transphobia when it's coming from people who describe same sex attraction as a pretence?

I'm not.

Barheim, what is it that makes you a man?

My gender, hope that helps, not discussing this.

Well there's a few per cent of them, I guess. It's homophobic to appropriate the words of same sex attracted only people.

It's homophobic to insist gay people aren't gay, insisting you know their sexuality better than them. It's homophobic to act you're the sexuality police and you get to dictate who can and can't be what sexuality based on you forcing your beliefs on others.

You do not control and you have no say over gay people, hate to break it to you.

Barheim, what is it that makes you a man?

There's plenty of gay men

Well there's a few per cent of them, I guess. It's homophobic to appropriate the words of same sex attracted only people.

and also strongly in favour of people being able to have consensual sex with people they are attracted to without being told their relationship is rapey or abusive or disgusting or that they are faking their sexuality.

I'm strongly in favour of words having meanings, particularly as they pertain to marginalised groups, and not ridiculous scenarios where two gay males are considered a "lesbian" couple because they declare themselves women. Or a bi woman and a straight male.

No one here is calling genuinely consensual relationships rapey or abusive, btw.

There's plenty of gay men who don't care whether their sexual partner is male or female?

There's plenty of gay men who don't care whether the men they're dating have or don't have a penis. That isn't homophobia.

And plenty who do. I posted research evidence of this upthread. The pp was sharing their own experience. Not something you have any insight into.

If I gave the impression that I care at all about them doing so, I apologize.

What I care about is the significant amount of times in which gay men who don't demand their partner was born with a penis have their sexuality questioned or down-right erased, or where the existence of them being interested in us is regarded as homophobia, such as what the person above you said.

There's plenty of gay men who don't care.

And plenty who do. I posted research evidence of this upthread. The pp was sharing their own experience. Not something you have any insight into.

'There's plenty of gay men who don't care.'

There's plenty of gay men who don't care whether their sexual partner is male or female?

Homophobia.

So if a lesbian who is not attracted to men and thinks of trans women as women is attracted to trans woman and wants to have sex with her, she can say that without being called offensive names because you are not the sex/language police either ?

I'm absolutely, 100% in favour of people not being coerced or pressured into sex having sex with anyone they don't want to, and also strongly in favour of people being able to have consensual sex with people they are attracted to without being told their relationship is rapey or abusive or disgusting or that they are faking their sexuality.

Because vaginal and / or stimulation is very important for sexual pleasure?

Maybe for you, definitely not for me. I'd dump a guy who fixated on vaginal stimulation the second it became obvious.

Why do you assume by default that we want vaginal stimulation, for one

It's about gay men and their views, nothing to do with the views of people who gave vaginas to be stimulated, or otherwise.

The gay men I know, the gay clubs I've been to...

In the main...

The male sexed body is pretty bloody important.

To deny this is homophobia.

So yes, excluding them under the pretense of "same-sex attraction" is transphobic.

Denying that exclusive same sex attraction both exists and is morally justifiable is pretty abysmal homophobia.

But no one's being "pressured" to bully or coerce to date anyone.

There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that that is simply not true.

'Why do you assume by default that we want vaginal stimulation, for one, and for two, why do you dehumanize us and make our entire existence solely 'a walking vagina'?'

Because vaginal and / or stimulation is very important for sexual pleasure?

And that's the the reason that in more extreme forms of fgm the external part of the clitoris is cut out...

You are denying gay peoples existance, and that is violence.

the pretense of "same-sex attraction"

How very progressive.

Gay people only want sex with people who are the same sex as them, thats what the word means. Its homophobic to say otherwise.

Lesbians are allowed to say who they want to sleep with without being called offensive names.
You are not the language/sex police.

But no one's being "pressured" to bully or coerce to date anyone. You're free to reject any individual woman that you don't find attractive, and that includes trans women.

The point is that you should not make unsolicited transphobic commentary in the process, and doing so will spark criticism of your transphobia.

Herenna

Gay male humans are sexually attracted to male humans.

To suggest that this is some kind of genital obsession is way out of line.

To reiterate. Gay male humans are still at risk around the world of violence, murder, arrest, imprisonment, execution.

If they are found to have had sexual intercourse with another male human.

These things happen because they like cock.

If dick is not a fundamental then why would they ever take those risks.