Question re relationships with trans people

And external physical characteristics can be altered.

'And what do you think sexual attraction is based on? Gametes and chromosomes, or external physical characteristics?'

We're mammals fgs! External physical characteristics? You mean hair clothes? What do you mean?

External physical characteristics = at the most basic. Penis/ vulva.

If it's not about bodies then... Why is mainstream porn all about bodies?

Homophobic oppressors have that in common with you -- you both have no regard for self-identification, and force people to adhere to the categories you impose on them.

WTAF am I reading on here tonight?

I really hope there aren't lurkers.

Seriously, being transgender is NOT a SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

Being LGB ARE SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS and protected characteristics. They relate to, you guessed it, SEX!!!!!!!!!!!!

T falls under gender reasignment, a totally different protected characteristic, related to gender. A social construct.

Sex is also a protected characteristic. You know what that means? Women by sex have equal rights to both of the other groups.

You hear that right? EQUAL.

It is neither homophobic, nor transphobic for women to assert their rights where they are unfairly trampled on by other vulnerable groups.

Similarly LBG people have the right not to chose sexual partners based on gender, but sex.

The right to be free to love people of the same gender.

What do you mean by gender?

Tell me again how the fight for gay rights is not and never has been able laws criminalising. Male adult humans having sex with other male adult humans.

I'm um. I don't know what to say.

Those laws are about sex. Not gender.

The outrage about people with penises having sex with other people with penises. Is a particularly male concern. And is encoded in societies laws. Plenty of mainstream religions.

Since before 2015.

You're going to need to accept that because it's a well known fact/ truth.

Funny. I used to care for a man in his 90s. We spent a lovely afternoon once discussing his upbringing and history. More than once he referred to himself as being same sex attracted. (He said he didn't like the word gay as it had been used as a slur against him so often) Which wasn't something he could openly discuss when he was a young man.
Yet you claim this phrase was invented in 2015. Weird then that he was using it. Its unlikely he had latched on to modern language rather than using the words he always had.

What do you think

HOMOSEXUAL means for god's sake

It means same sex attracted by definition.

The gay liberation movement never used the phrase "the right to be same-sex attracted".

What do you think they were fighting for?

There are pink news articles on the murders, gang rapes of. Apologies for the term. SAME SEX ATTRACTED women in South Africa.

Your claim that the fight is for same GENDER attraction. And that the concept of sex based attraction was invented in what. 2015. By horrible people.

What are you writing?! Same sex attraction gets you killed all over the world. You deny that is the cause. It's about gender not biology.

What me and virtually all of trans people are trying to argue all along is that people should be free to live their lives however they want with no fear of discrimination or punishment.

And what happens when what someone wants clashes with someone else's rights. So women's right to single sex spaces.
What if I want to live my life as a 7 year old and go to school with my nephew every day. Do you support me in what I want? Even though its not fair on the class of 7 year olds.
What if I want to compete in the paralympics even though I'm able bodied? Do you support what I want? Even though I've got a clear advantage?

People can't always have what they want.

'The partially clothed body of Eudy Simelane, former star of South Africa's acclaimed Banyana Banyana national female football squad, was found in a creek in a park in Kwa Thema, on the outskirts of Johannesburg. Simelane had been gang-raped and brutally beaten before being stabbed 25 times in the face, chest and legs. As well as being one of South Africa's best-known female footballers, Simelane was a voracious equality rights campaigner and one of the first women to live openly as a lesbian in Kwa Thema.

Her brutal murder took place last April, and since then a tide of violence against lesbians in South Africa has continued to rise. Human rights campaigners say it is characterised by what they call "corrective rape" committed by men behind the guise of trying to "cure" lesbians of their sexual orientation.'

Are you American, @CuriousPanda ?

The attempted gaslighting on this thread is strong, but the game is weak. And I'm off to bed. Night all.

Wiki- Iran

'Same-sex sexual activities are punishable by imprisonment,[2] corporal punishment, or execution.[3] Gay men have faced stricter enforcement actions under the law than lesbians.

The government of Iran is considered to be one of the most discriminatory towards homosexuals in the world.[4][5][6] It is estimated that hundreds or thousands[7][8][9] of people were executed in the immediate aftermath of revolution of whom at least 20 for homosexuality. Ruhollah Khomeini called them to be exterminated in 1979.[10]'

@OldCrone
Like Curious, the Iranians think that such a person would no longer be gay if they then had a relationship with a man, since they wouldn't be the 'same gender'.

I wonder if Curious views the Iranians as homophobic or enlightened?

Honestly, I'm so sick of dishonest bullshit like this. Do you think all trans people are straight/"homosexual"?

Do you think Iran is accepting of bi trans people? Gay trans men? Trans lesbians? What the hell do you think happens to trans people who aren't attracted to the opposite gender?

No, I don't think Iran is "enlightened" why the hell would I think that? What me and virtually all of trans people are trying to argue all along is that people should be free to live their lives however they want with no fear of discrimination or punishment.

From the trans dating paper I quoted below:

such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman).

Why would that be, CuriousPanda?

I don't know why I'm bothering but anyway

'Sexual Offences Act 1967
After several attempts to introduce homosexual reform, Lord Arran introduced the Bill in the House of Lords in May 1966 after the general election. As soon as the Bill passed, Leo Abse MP introduced it into the House of Commons under a ten minute rule procedure, with the support of the Home Secretary, Roy Jenkins. A standing committee was set up to consider amendments and after an intense night of debates, at the third reading, the Bill was passed 101 votes to 16. After passing all stages in both houses, the bill received Royal Assent on the 21st July 1967.

The Act permitted homosexual acts between two consenting adults over the age of twenty-one. Whilst the Act was a considerable milestone in achieving homosexual law reform, equality for the LGBT community was far from being achieved. Restrictions were placed on what was considered private and the Act only applied to England and Wales. It would take a number of years for Parliament to fully legalise homosexuality.'