Question re relationships with trans people

Wish I hadn't walked in on this thread.

Off now because I find it difficult to communicate calmly when I realise people can just make up the rules, rather than read the fucking law.

FFS

The TW I know in relationships are the exception to their partner's usual sexual orientation.

I.e. one is with a previously gay male who is still very much in the gay male scene. Another is with a normally straight woman - in that case the partner was a straight woman one day and a lesbian the next without any say in the matter, thanks to the TW 'outing' themselves.

It's Owen Jones syndrome, OP. Women should accept any person who wants to have sex with them, how dare they think otherwise?! But would he date a trans-man? Nope. He said it was homophobic for a journalist to put that question to him as a gay man, even one publicly pushing trans ideology, yet he demands that lesbians should date trans-women of be "transphobic".

Weird that a gay man doesn't understand the definition of "gay".

Don't see many men dating trans-women either. Mostly they seem to be trying to attend lesbian groups. 🙄

'The labels were created by humans, they didn't come coded into our DNA. '

I think, in fact I'm sure. That sex is pretty much coded into our DNA

The labels were created by humans, they didn't come coded into our DNA.

Well duh. We created all the words. And the words woman and man refer to adult human females and adult human men. The fact that humans created the words isn't proof that they refer to gender any more than the fact that we invented the word "table" actually means a table is a river.

Words, as we invented them, have meanings.
Woman = adult human female.
Female = of the sex class that produces large gametes.
Homosexual = same sex attracted.

'All labels are made-up.'

We're getting into philosophy 'if a tree falls in the woods' stuff here surely.

Yes labels are all made up. The words we use for eg tree, water, sun. Could just as easily be other words. And in other languages are other words.

Some things are not yet labelled- they have not been given words yet.

They still exist.

A cat is a cat is a cat and has been for millennia irrespective of whether a human had given it a word. And it's still a cat if it's called a different word in other languages.

Male and female in mammals is just a constant basic thing. For zebras or mice or humans.

Before humans developed language they knew the difference between male and female. How could they not?

What rights does a male man have that a male woman doesn't?

What rights does a female woman have that a female man doesn't?

Would help level set for all if you could answer this.

And even that's not universal, since in plenty indigenous cultures, having a penis didn't necessarily mean being a "man" at all.

Educate yourself and stop spreading misinformation

See

The moment you choose to call a child with a penis a "boy", you are assigning a gender category.

No. A child with a penis is called a boy because he is male. A sex category.

But if sex categories don't exist, as you seem to be saying, then what are trans people transitioning from or to? Surely denying the existence of sex means that trans people don't exist. Are you denying the existence of trans people?

Fyi I have been pretty careful to use male female in my posts.

'Not being as violent as some other bigots doesn't mean you're not a bigot or not complicit in violent bigotry.'

The fact that I believe (know) that around the world and through history.

Laws against homosexual acts (almost always focusing on gay men).

Are and were based on outrage at male people engaging in sexual activity.

Makes me complicit in violent bigotry that leads to things like. Out lesbians in South Africa being gang raped and murdered? Or gay men in Jamaica being beaten to death?

As I said earlier. That's a very strong position to take.

You need to read the actual law.

It is sex. Not gender.

They are separate.

No point arguing with you, you don't know enough to hold your own.

No, those thing are gender labels and you are socially imposing these labels on trans people.

What the actual do you mean by "socially imposed"?
You said it earlier. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now.

Man and woman are the terms for adult human males and females respectively. He and she are the pronouns for those people. That's all.

Do you insist on using gendered terms like "woman", "she", "man", "he"?

Those terms refer to sex not gender.

Because all these labels are socially imposed. And you're part of the movement trying to socially impose unwanted labels on trans people

And yet here you are, imposing your unwanted 'cis' label on people who don't identify as 'cis'.

The moment you choose to call a child with a penis a "boy", you are assigning a gender category.

'Sexual orientation is based on external physical characteristics, not gametes and chromosomes.

And external physical characteristics can be altered.'

Again you overlook the enormous number of people around the world who have no such option.

Under the taleban female people had to wear burqas. Male people had to grow their beards to a specific length.

Your posts seem to have a limited (non existent) knowledge of or consideration of the situation around the world.

I don't get that TBH.

They are, the moment you call a child a "boy" or a "girl", you are assigning a gender.

No. That is an observation of their sex.

Gender is made up. Social.

Sex is real, factual.