Non Binary passport appeal on Mon

Just sharing this.

twitter.com/freddymcconnell/status/1414580735776808962?s=21

I do not feel a sense of identification with the other socially permissible gendered role that is strong or certain enough to make me want to transfer and become identified within that role

You and all of the rest of us.

Elan Cane did seem fragile on that video. I felt sorry for them when they started talking. I don’t understand why they’re conflating sex and gender or why they care so much. Despite the two surgeries mentioned above, every time I look at them or write posts I have to remove the ‘wrong’ pronouns I’ve automatically written. I say that not to be mean but because I feel so sorry for them. They can’t stop how people see them - and why does it matter??

In the lack of any logical reason, I can only think this action is not for its own sake but to further push the law towards gender trumping sex. I do wish somebody would stand up and say “No - Sex is what we’re talking about. You don’t need a special answer for Sex nor is your dress preference, hair style, hobby choice, job, anything to do with this.”

We’re pretty much all ‘non-binary’. Nobody gives a shit about clothes and the rest. That’s completely separate from Sex.

I wonder whether the learned judges were in receipt of the training from Gendered Intelligence that we're not allowed to know details of for...reasons....?
Or whether they are familiar with the trans section of their Bench Book that (according to an excellent analysis by a barrister) is full of fake facts and opinions presented as facts. More Stonewall law - ie the law as we would like it to be than what it actually is.
Terrifying thread about the capture of the judiciary here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4291072-Policy-Exchange-Why-the-Equal-Treatment-Bench-Books-needs-urgent-revision

The big law firms are all at it. So ‘diversified’ up it makes your eyes water. I’d they think there’s money or clients in it, they’d sell their own granny.

Christie Elan Cane comes across to me as someone who has mental health problems and is quite vulnerable.

Having watched the beginning of the youtube video linked above, made by Elan-Cane, I’m inclined to agree. Elan-Cane comes across as a very damaged individual to me.

We seem to be living in a world where the focus has shifted from repressing/hiding damage as was often the case in the past, to glamourising and celebrating it, denying that it’s actually damage, presenting it instead as a state to be aspired to.

The concept of actually acknowledging and healing damage - without blame attached to the person who's been harmed, but with a clear vision that harm has indeed taken place and needs to be addressed - seems to have been discarded as dull and passé.

What we have now is actually just a variation on the old stiff upper lip mentality - it’s still ultimately focused on denial of real pain and unwillingness to accept or embrace the healing process.

The same way that transgenderism is a variation on traditional patriarchal structures that depend on and reinforce sexist stereotypes and the oppression of women.

It’s really not progress.

Interesting that Clifford Chance has taken this on. Clifford Chance gave an award of some kind to David Paisley, the actor ('Man at bus stop', as Glinner has it) who was so scared of ribbons in the colours of women's suffrage that he had to move to a safe house. Apparently.

I'm sure I heard somewhere Clifford Chance (vvv expensive law firm) is acting pro bono. Christie is not financially secure at all. it would be interesting to know who suggested to Clifford Chance that they should take this on pro bono

I think I said it upthread but scanners detect male or female and they don't get confused. If an X is used, then will there be an effort to get scanners re-jigged (bet the military would come down like a ton of bricks on that one)

Christie Elan Cane comes across to me as someone who has mental health problems and is quite vulnerable.

I'm sure I heard somewhere Clifford Chance (vvv expensive law firm) is acting pro bono. Christie is not financially secure at all.

This is the Supreme Court and they are unlikely to put themselves in the position of being a laughing stock. They are also unlikely to make a law allowing for non binary as this could raise so many issues including a route to self id, which the government have said they will not do.

I found, what I heard, to be very muddled and straight out of the SW book of UK Law.

You can already change your sex on your passport (without a GRC). Since that’s the case, in many ways I’d prefer this case to win and allow an X (rainbow unicorn or whatever else someone wants)

Sine the field cannot be relied upon to show actual sex it might be better that it was an acknowledged free for all.

But the people who came up with the Yogakarta principles aren't anyone special, are they? They're just a bunch of trans people who went on vacation and wrote them.

There's no expertise to be had.

Frankly, there is no expertise about any of it. They talk about trans people like they aren't either people with gender dysphoria, or people who want to dress as the opposite sex, for whatever reason.

What else is there?

It's ridiculous that anyone is giving any of this ear room.

Frankly, I can't wait to see the headlines if it goes through. The judiciary will be a laughing stock.

I looked this up as it was on BBC Radio 2 news. I was half-listening but the report said the person appealing today had had two surgeries, the second on the NHS, and the fact that the NHS was happy to do the surgery to make them non-binary but that they weren't recognised as x was ? can't remember the wording, but that it didn't stack up. Then googled and found a piece where this person said we are all a little bit intersex and society needs to catch up. I'm a bit baffled to be honest. And curious about the surgery the NHS performed, and why.

Would make an interesting episode of “banged up abroad” tho

I did just have a thought.

How would this work with children?

Could parents theoretically reapply for a.passport for the child with X on?

What happens in cases where one of the parents has lied about identity and is trying to take the child out of the country? If the airports are alerted to look for a man/woman with a 2 yr old girl, could an X get past them?

Thanks ShagMeRiggins I had read, but then forgot so have just reminded myself. I assume Supreme court believes their is enough on the government side to cover this aspect. That might be a good thing.

From FPFW Twitter feed, Human Rights Watch apparently testified that:

“More and more US states are now adopting X passports.”

This can’t be correct. Passports are a federal document and are not issued by the states. Driver’s licences are, other ID cards, birth certificates, but not passports.

However, it was announced in June that the State department will be adding X on US passports, likely from September of this year.

I’ve watched Elan Caines video. I am constantly amazed at the blithe talk of ‘gendered roles’ and the problem being not fitting into them. It’s like talking to a time traveler from the past not quite able to get their head round unisex clothing, wives being breadwinners while dad stays at home or mum out earning dad. Women as political leaders, women as engineers, men as nurses. And it makes me sad that instead of fighting the ugly restrictive and demeaning stereotypes of the past they think the only way out is to declare themselves non binary or trans.

Reading a bit about the background of this person - they seem to be quite extreme and rather unusual in their ideas and actions. So why are we all supposed to change to accommodate this person?