Right which one of you left the keys in the internet?

I think this goes to show that siphoning this topic off like it's some side show is counter productive. We're out of the way, in the naughty corner so we don't offend the perpetually offended, and still it's still not good enough for some.

Fish in a barrel really, now they can just find us easier. And yes to whoever said about school holidays.

I know it's best not responding to some of the more goady ones, but sometimes I think that for people who are on the fence or unsure of their position they might still get some benefit out of hearing some sense and rationality (hopeful).

” the number of threads focused on fear of trans people”
I think this trivialises and demonises women raising serious and reasonable questions about women’s sex-based rights if men can potentially self-identify as women.

*quality threads around womens advancement were just sidelined by obsessions over the possibility a transwoman could be in a toilet.

I think the new direction is quite helpful, as it splits the two and gives core womens advancement concerns its own space away from the constant anti trans stuff.*

I've not seen anything particularly advancing core women's rights on the new Feminist chat board. I do still pop by to see what is being discussed but most of it seems it should be on the Sex and gender board.
Sarah Everard - she was kidnapped, raped and murdered for being female, not identifying as a woman.
Late term abortions - only affects females so this is about sex.

I'm still a little confused what the criteria is for the split?

I'm tolerant to other people's views but if they come on her with no evidence we know they are just a troll and I think it actually helps our cause! You amazing women are so good at engaging with these unsubstantiated views.

But anyway, why are the Wayne Couzens threads that mention this now still there and not here? Could it be that you can't segregate feminism and women's issues into abusive/toxic men and abusive/tixicmen who call themselves women?

Not fear
Not trans people

Quality threads? Meaning those that didn't mention the dismantling of women's right via redefining common words in law?

Toilets? Only ever introduced by posters wishing to trivialise the issue - prisons, health, sport, etc etc

Classic fear campaign? And you focus on the safety of trans kids and ignore the safety of all others. Again, trying to side step safeguarding by labelling those kids, girls, who are made to feel uncomfortable as transphobes.

You may not want to think through the legalities if the TRA lobbying.

You may not want to see past 'be nice' - as long as it is women and girls being nice and accommodating, no matter how uncomfortable they feel.

But many of us disagree. Though your description of this as being 'siloed off' is telling.

NonnyMouse1337

Aren't schools off at the moment? Well they are in Scotland anyway. I suspect there's a correlation between an increase in annoying posters on these boards and school / university holidays.

Yes, Nonny. Every year/half-term. They always get their arses handed to them.

There is the North American contingent also. Tedious swaggering feckers'. They get their arses handed to them, with a dollop of "grow the fuck up you kidults".

There are the late night drunk want-an-argy-bargy-with-women UKers. They'd be chicken shit to say what they type on here to the average man/woman down the High Street. They have their arses handed to them. In colloquial terms.

Half of me thinks 'I really do not want to read Mumsnet any longer, it has been taken over'. Then I think 'That is exactly what they want'.

As with all Feminist spaces since the beginning of time, it has to be closed down, they have to shut the women up. So now the Feminist boards is just for anyone to spout their shit. And GC is just goady. As someone much more intelligent than me said 'there is no need to say gender critical feminist, feminists by their very definition are gender critical'. The split boards have been a fail for me, I just cannot engage the way I used to.

Never mind 😏

The leaders who take kids on camps know all about and are trained in safe guarding. Zero incidents cited. I mean, the thread itself was around someone's daughter thinking there may be a boy in their group.

What is your real-life solution to such real-life situations, Mishy?

I've been in the precise situation of allowing my teenage daughter to share a tent with a transboy (with male name, but a child I knew to be female). This wasn't Guides but a situation between families who knew each other.

I had to mention to DH on a different occasion that classmate 'Emily' was male, and therefore usual male/female rather than girl/girl rules would apply to sleepovers should DD approach him and try to pull a fast one.

Nothing against either child but one combination carries a teen pregnancy risk that the other doesn't.

How are Guide leaders supposed to do that, or make sure parents are informed, unless they can divide by sex?

The siloing isn't working though is it? I see lots of trans related threads in the other one, and non trans threads in this one. Not to mention ones where it comes up but they started on the other one. Shows what a massive issue it is for women I suppose. Must be a right PITA to administer though, constantly moving threads back and forth.

@MishyJDI
I think you've misunderstood the concern about GG?

And good on to mums net for silo-ing off the trans stuff from other womens rights issues to give them some breathing space and support.

Why aren't they using this breathing space then? They wanted it, they have it, yet seems to be very little traffic. Posts had many more responses in the previous board.

This sort of stuff ways ramps up when we've had some success or some concerning stuff gets widespread coverage. I guess the WiSpa thing has rustled their jimmies recently.

God forbid they just bring some reasoned arguments and evidence into it.

The trouble with the old way, was that feminism topics about day to day patriachial issues and striving for advancement, were getting buried by the number of threads focused on fear of trans people.

So quality threads around womens advancement were just sidelined by obsessions over the possibility a transwoman could be in a toilet.

I think the new direction is quite helpful, as it splits the two and gives core womens advancement concerns its own space away from the constant anti trans stuff.

The Girl Guides one is a classic, that is revisited often. It's a classic fear campaign approach - target children and safeguarding. Trans kids are so concerned about fitting in, and just being kids. The leaders who take kids on camps know all about and are trained in safe guarding. Zero incidents cited. I mean, the thread itself was around someone's daughter thinking there may be a boy in their group. Again - just another fear campaign.

Girl guides is a fab organisation, and one I loved going through while growing up. I learnt so much, about empowerment of girls and women, and relying on one's self. I fully support that they continue this mission today in an inclusive environment.

And good on to mums net for silo-ing off the trans stuff from other womens rights issues to give them some breathing space and support.

Maybe Justine will revisit the decision

LOL!

Maybe Justine will revisit the decision.

After all, having a single space where all the GC nastiness is distilled won't be a good look for all of those delicate advertisers.

we all told you so

They're doing it for Twatter. One derailed a thread and got it deleted the other day. Revealed on Twatter it was another one of those riveting 'experiments' where they report back to their follows to prove that women on a women's discussion board discuss things.

They're also screenshot baiting for a new ''article'' about the howwible bigots of Mumsnet, which I'm very looking forward to reading.

I hope lots more of them turn up to display their ignorance, aggression, narcissism, science denial, poor grasp of logic and failure of critical thinking.
It all helps to show more and more women what this ideology really means for women’s rights. They are our best GC recruiting agents!

Aren't schools off at the moment? Well they are in Scotland anyway. I suspect there's a correlation between an increase in annoying posters on these boards and school / university holidays.

@Shedbuilder I thought the same about the GG one. I've seen discussions about it before and there's usually a couple of 'you're being ridiculous - how it will affect you' comments from the usual suspects but generally the comments are mostly from mums worried about safeguarding at residential camps. That one was just incessant 'if you don't like it, don't let your daughter attend the camp, you transphobe' from new posters.

Curious that....

It's almost as if this was planned. Now there's a surprise. Mumsnet, you sold us down the river and we won't forget.

Has someone locked Twitter so they came here?