Right which one of you left the keys in the internet?

Heck. I am very unprudish; and yet there are many males I do not want to disrobe in front of.

Girls should not have adults (de facto parents) insisting they share bedrooms/changing rooms/tents with boys.

IsItShining

I did not become a Guide leader to have to play Russian roulette about whether I am putting a girl in danger of a sexual assault.

It is not simply just about the sex act.

Girls don't want to undress around boys.

I'm so sick of the lies being propagated about this, not to mention being worried sick about it. I did not become a Guide leader to have to play Russian roulette about whether I am putting a girl in danger of a sexual assault.

Indeed. And we have to remain clear about these policies and what they mean. And you're absolutely right, Russian roulette it is.

And at the same time promoting damaging stereotypes in an organisation that is meant to be uplifting girls, not endangering them, discomforting them or confusing them about what their sex is.

I did not become a Guide leader to have to play Russian roulette about whether I am putting a girl in danger of a sexual assault.

Or indeed of consensual underage sex between a male and female teenager.

I'm actually enjoying this latest influx of denouncers and admonishers. They're doing an excellent job of showing all the lurkers just how flimsy and horribly sexist their arguments are.
Hopefully, the upcoming 'article' will send even more people our way. Keep up the good work, Monty et al. Much appreciated.

I'm so sick of the lies being propagated about this, not to mention being worried sick about it. I did not become a Guide leader to have to play Russian roulette about whether I am putting a girl in danger of a sexual assault.

I must admit to enjoying the current AIBU though.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4292483-to-NOT-think-womens-rights-are-being-attacked?msgid=108952122#108952122

The poll is as you would expect, overwhelming for those who believe there is a conflict in women’s rights. And the usual posters are STILL declaring it is a extremist minority of transphobes who believe this.

They simply cannot except they are the minority and acting like extremists silencing other women. It really is an illuminating thread.

The Girl Guides one is a classic, that is revisited often. It's a classic fear campaign approach - target children and safeguarding. Trans kids are so concerned about fitting in, and just being kids. The leaders who take kids on camps know all about and are trained in safe guarding. Zero incidents cited. I mean, the thread itself was around someone's daughter thinking there may be a boy in their group. Again - just another fear campaign.

Your long time ago guiding experiences mean absolutely nothing, and unless you are in the movement as a leader, you have no right to comment on the situation leaders are facing.

One more time for the hard of thinking.

Guide leaders - like me - are not allowed to implement normal safeguarding rules while GGUK persist in the fiction that the organisation is single sex. There can be no normal safeguarding segregation between the sexes, when we are meant to operate on the basis that there is only one sex present. There can be no informed consent - asking parents and natal female guides who their daughter/they are comfortable sharing with - when we are not allowed to reveal to anyone that a person of the opposite biological sex is present. We cannot ourselves exercise our judgment in policing sleeping arrangements, so that a trans girl is separated from natal girls, as we are not allowed to treat them differently from a natal girl. We cannot on our own initiative decide that the trans girl is to shower etc separately
because we cannot treat them differently from natal girls.

We are left with a situation where we have to hope that natal girls and their parents use their senses/observations of the other children in the unit to assess the situation at hand, and when we ask them who their child is willing to share a tent with, they can tell us whether or not they want to be in with "Girl X". We can do absolutely nothing about washing facilities, however.

And at some point, "Girl X" might have nobody wanting to share with them, because girls and their parents have worked it out. What then? I mean, I am going to have to pop them in a tent with someone, aren't I? How's that going to work out? "I'm not comfortable sharing with "Girl X"" will only get you the possibility you don't have to share with them, not the certainty, we are supposed to be Sisters To All Guides after all. So at some point, even this informal method of informed consent goes out the window.

I'm so sick of the lies being propagated about this, not to mention being worried sick about it. I did not become a Guide leader to have to play Russian roulette about whether I am putting a girl in danger of a sexual assault.

They do get their asses handed to them right royaly tho. Its very instructive to see.

I think this goes to show that siphoning this topic off like it's some side show is counter productive. We're out of the way, in the naughty corner so we don't offend the perpetually offended, and still it's still not good enough for some

Yes and isn't it funny how all those super sensitive souls, who couldn't bear seeing us discuss sex based rights, seem to find themselves on this board so often?

You would think they would simply block the sex/gender topic eh? Isn't that exactly the excuse they gave to want us separated?🤔

The plan always seemed to be to push us into the naughty corner, wait until we are demonized further, then delete the board with flimsy excuses with us then being unable to post anything relating to gender/sex in chat.

A thread I was on the other day was deleted with the message that too many posts broke the rules.
The regular posters are so used to the forced speech and coercive control now that most post within the absurd rules anyway. It's very obvious who turn up to cause trouble yet are never sanctioned.

One rule for one.....

It's either side. But sometimes other punctuation, or paragraph breaks get in the way.

Strikethrough fail. What did I do wrong?

Lesbian and Gay News are that way also >>>>>>>

No one needs Pink News anymore.

He's not the cultural icon he thinks he is.

Or other people lead him to believe.

LGB Alliance are that way >>>>>

He is very stupid, but stupid people never know they’re stupid, do they…

He's stupid.

Most people from countryside to city would agree.

Prick News man claiming all criticism of his Times piece must be down to MN might be a driver?

There’s posters pop up here telling us “in the real world...” and the gist is MN posters are out of date, bigoted, in accepting etc

Yet we are seeing the responses to the Wi Spa news and transwomen competing in Olympic sports which actually mirror what the majority of posters already knew.

Because we ALL live and work and raise our kids in the real world, which is a very different place to Twitter.

The vast majority of people in the UK (and on these boards) want trans people to be treated with dignity, to not be discriminated against in the workplace, to not face abuse and harassment in the street.

What happens when it becomes clear that TRAs are pushing for any male to be able to access areas where women and children and naked, to have the right to be locked up with vulnerable women, to compete against smaller athletes whilst making very little changes to their male bodies is that the “real world” says “hang on! That’s not right!” and this is unacceptable to our TRA friends who rely on their twitter bubble to feel self righteous.

Well it’s all occurring now, just as TRAs have bullied, argued, lobbied for and demanded. And instead of saying “this is ok, there’s nothing wrong with this!” they are finally clocking it’s not as popular as they want to believe. They are now simply going for the classic tactic of accusing women of lying and accusing women of inciting male violence.

How many incidents won’t have happened before you realise you’ve cocked up? (Pun intended).

The leaders who take kids on camps know all about and are trained in safe guarding

Yup, and that’s why I’m stepping back of leadership roles, as have several other leaders I know. I’m still involved as an assistant, and if we get any males in out unit I’m quitting entirely.

Not out of hate. Not out of fear, but because I absolutely cannot guarantee to safeguard the females in the unit.

Many women don't talk on here for the sake of their health. We do it to raise the issues for people who don't already know about them.

And there is absolutely no better way of raising the issue than letting a TRA talk about why it's not an issue.

And you're a bigot/Nazi/transphobe/right wing extremist if you disagree.

And yes, The Hubbard, and Spa problems are hitting all the mainstream media. And therefore, the discussion must be shut down.

Fortunately, it just ends up amplifying it.

Which is how it gets into the paper in the first place! But they never learn. Telling women to shut up is far more important, than them actually shutting up.