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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New women's book shop

59 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 07/07/2021 16:35

Rare Birds Books have announced they will be opening as a bookshop in Edinburgh selling new books. The tweet says they will be "entirely dedicated to women's writing" but in answer to the inevitable, 'Will you be trans inclusive? Would appreciate an explicit statement on this!' they say, 'Yes, definitely!'.

Whilst this is neither a 'rights aren't pie' moment as presumably they will stock thousands of books so there should be plenty of room for all. It is also not a safe-guarding issue like single sex spaces often are. So why am I bothered I am asking myself?

It think the crux is these two questions that I would ask them on twitter if I was not on there under my work/real name:

  1. Will this mean including transwomen, or transmen or both. Because, 'transmen are men', no? What will you be doing about writers who lived very much like a man and you may call trans now, important writers like Radcliffe Hall. Will RH be excluded? If not, is that not transphobic?

  2. Will you stock the works of brave crusaders for women's rights (might wait for a hopeful 'yes' on that before continuing) like Selina Todd, Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Jane Harris, JK Rowling, etc?

And finally - I think in the end the whole thing is disputable - a mis-described trade.

If anyone on twitter does tax them over it, I would love to see the responses.

twitter.com/rarebirdsbooks/status/1412477317176336387

OP posts:
DdraigGoch · 10/07/2021 00:38

@SmallPug

And note, they haven't come back enthusiastically about that yet...
And still haven't replied, days later. Funny that.
ChristinaXYZ · 09/07/2021 19:49

@TeaAndStrumpets

Plenty of Abebooks sellers are UK based. Agree they are brilliant. Centralised billing system, just register and they handle the sale for you every time, like Amazon.
They are Amazon - well owned by.

www.biblio.com/ is independent and has loads of UK and US sellers.

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ArabellaScott · 09/07/2021 19:43

Hey, looks like Rachel Rooney has a new poetry book out for kids!

Rhannion · 09/07/2021 18:55

Stocking not sticking!!! Need my reading glasses on!

Rhannion · 09/07/2021 18:54

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I'd be glad to see that shop, Rhannion. And I have money to burn on exactly that sort of thing. Will you post on here to let us know when it opens?
I certainly will and would be looking for staff too! To answer the question about Radcliffe Hall , or perhaps a book about James Miranda Barry for example, as both of those were born women I would stock them, however I would be more interested in nonfiction books, unlike this new bookshop which appears to be only sticking fiction.
Rhannion · 09/07/2021 18:50

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

One rule for them, another rule for us.

It's absurd

Quite!
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/07/2021 18:41

One rule for them, another rule for us.

It's absurd

Rhannion · 09/07/2021 18:22

Yes Lighthouse have the right to hold that view, however they also lobbied to stop women speaking at Edinburgh University

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 09/07/2021 18:12

Rhannion

Lighthouse Books is the first one that comes to mind. Very open about their TWAW beliefs, which they have a right to hold.

www.lighthousebookshop.com/

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 09/07/2021 18:04

I'd be glad to see that shop, Rhannion. And I have money to burn on exactly that sort of thing. Will you post on here to let us know when it opens?

Rhannion · 09/07/2021 18:04

Looks like they are only stocking fiction.

Rhannion · 09/07/2021 17:57

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Another liberal feminist bookshop for Edinburgh?

How many can the city support? Maybe they should try Glasgow, instead.

Where are the others?
Rhannion · 09/07/2021 17:54

I have a long standing plan to open a book shop in Edinburgh, writing only by women, for women and about women. Been looking for premises for a while now and no it won’t be “ inclusive “ !

TeaAndStrumpets · 09/07/2021 16:29

Although to add, when I have bought from US sellers they are so polite! Fab customer service.

TeaAndStrumpets · 09/07/2021 16:27

Plenty of Abebooks sellers are UK based. Agree they are brilliant. Centralised billing system, just register and they handle the sale for you every time, like Amazon.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 09/07/2021 16:13

For the record, Abebooks (online US bookseller) are brilliant for out of print works and even First Editions. I use them often.

ChristinaXYZ · 09/07/2021 09:38

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

A key target customer base for this shop will likely be the University of Edinburgh (say no more), their staff and students. They'd be alienating that market should they respond to that question in the negative (notwithstanding they'll alienate would be GC customers by an affirmative response). Or, in other words, it's a lose-lose for women at the moment.

It's so tedious that something as innocuous as a book store for women (remembering all the good work done to reclaim forgotten women writers, as happened in the 80s with the Virago and Persephone presses), should now be embroiled in these endless identity politics.

I totally see where the analogy 'for the want of the shoe the horse was lost' is coming from. These things start incrementally and encroach. On the other hand, should women refrain from opening businesses such as this if they're unwilling to stick their heads over the parapet over the incendiary issue of identity politics? I don't believe that's the answer either. I don't do this in my workplace, for the simple reason that I'd be fired by my extremely Stonewall-inhibited workplace. and I know a lot of women on these boards are in a similar position. If these booksellers are wrong, then we are wrong too.

FWIW, I refuse to patronise 'The Second Shelf' because I don't accept having 'TWAW' dinged in my ears when undergoing the usually pleasant activity of browsing bookshelves.

I've never seen so divisive a 'feminist' debate (nor, for that matter, one which centres men) in my lifetime. There are a lot of hills to die on with this particular issue. I personally wouldn't choose to perish on this one.

I won't buy from The Second Shelf either for exactly the same reason.
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morningtoncrescent62 · 08/07/2021 15:25

@MarieIVanArkleStinks I completely agree re the divisiveness of this issue. I do wonder, though, what would happen if the bookstore came out as unashamedly pro-women. As well as Edinburgh University there's a thriving GC scene in Edinburgh. Seems like quite a few secret dissidents even at Edinburgh University as well - quite a few of the contributions on this website are from there. www.gcacademianetwork.org

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 08/07/2021 12:59

A key target customer base for this shop will likely be the University of Edinburgh (say no more), their staff and students. They'd be alienating that market should they respond to that question in the negative (notwithstanding they'll alienate would be GC customers by an affirmative response). Or, in other words, it's a lose-lose for women at the moment.

It's so tedious that something as innocuous as a book store for women (remembering all the good work done to reclaim forgotten women writers, as happened in the 80s with the Virago and Persephone presses), should now be embroiled in these endless identity politics.

I totally see where the analogy 'for the want of the shoe the horse was lost' is coming from. These things start incrementally and encroach. On the other hand, should women refrain from opening businesses such as this if they're unwilling to stick their heads over the parapet over the incendiary issue of identity politics? I don't believe that's the answer either. I don't do this in my workplace, for the simple reason that I'd be fired by my extremely Stonewall-inhibited workplace. and I know a lot of women on these boards are in a similar position. If these booksellers are wrong, then we are wrong too.

FWIW, I refuse to patronise 'The Second Shelf' because I don't accept having 'TWAW' dinged in my ears when undergoing the usually pleasant activity of browsing bookshelves.

I've never seen so divisive a 'feminist' debate (nor, for that matter, one which centres men) in my lifetime. There are a lot of hills to die on with this particular issue. I personally wouldn't choose to perish on this one.

ChristinaXYZ · 08/07/2021 11:49

@Cailleach1

So, they are not a women only bookshop really. They will include male writers (just not admit they are male writers) and possibly exclude some female writers. They will not confirm if they will include women writers who are deemed problematic for this men's right's movement.

This is where you judge someone by what they do, not what they pretend say they are doing. Deeds, not words.

Absolutely! Thank you!

As I say they can run any business they like under any remit they like but we can still say we see what they are doing out loud.

I like this I've just seen on twitter - it is 'for want of a shoe the horse was lost' for the gender issue.

twitter.com/Aja02537920/status/1392741656710062083

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Cailleach1 · 07/07/2021 23:16

So, they are not a women only bookshop really. They will include male writers (just not admit they are male writers) and possibly exclude some female writers. They will not confirm if they will include women writers who are deemed problematic for this men's right's movement.

This is where you judge someone by what they do, not what they pretend say they are doing. Deeds, not words.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 07/07/2021 21:32

Another liberal feminist bookshop for Edinburgh?

How many can the city support? Maybe they should try Glasgow, instead.

NonnyMouse1337 · 07/07/2021 21:22

but why can't they say they stock books by women and transwomen or women and gender theorists, or women, gender theorists and transwomen.

You're not allowed to distinguish between women and transwomen in the gender identity religion. It's heresy.

pushing a meaning of the word woman that many don't accept

Well that's the plan.

SmallPug · 07/07/2021 20:17

And note, they haven't come back enthusiastically about that yet...

morningtoncrescent62 · 07/07/2021 19:59

Someone has asked whether they'll stock books by transmen and GC feminists.
twitter.com/womenspeakscot1/status/1412819708349386760