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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New women's book shop

59 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 07/07/2021 16:35

Rare Birds Books have announced they will be opening as a bookshop in Edinburgh selling new books. The tweet says they will be "entirely dedicated to women's writing" but in answer to the inevitable, 'Will you be trans inclusive? Would appreciate an explicit statement on this!' they say, 'Yes, definitely!'.

Whilst this is neither a 'rights aren't pie' moment as presumably they will stock thousands of books so there should be plenty of room for all. It is also not a safe-guarding issue like single sex spaces often are. So why am I bothered I am asking myself?

It think the crux is these two questions that I would ask them on twitter if I was not on there under my work/real name:

  1. Will this mean including transwomen, or transmen or both. Because, 'transmen are men', no? What will you be doing about writers who lived very much like a man and you may call trans now, important writers like Radcliffe Hall. Will RH be excluded? If not, is that not transphobic?

  2. Will you stock the works of brave crusaders for women's rights (might wait for a hopeful 'yes' on that before continuing) like Selina Todd, Kathleen Stock, Helen Joyce, Jane Harris, JK Rowling, etc?

And finally - I think in the end the whole thing is disputable - a mis-described trade.

If anyone on twitter does tax them over it, I would love to see the responses.

twitter.com/rarebirdsbooks/status/1412477317176336387

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Toffeebutterpopcorn · 18/07/2021 16:22

Now back in the day... when I was first a student I had two female lecturers who were very knowledgeable about feminism (the real type) and we’d often go off topic to discuss it.

Now the whole (what we now call) genderwoo was viewed as intellectual errrrr ‘self-love’ shall we say. Exercises in twisting words and meaning, exploring alleyways and seeing how far a theory could go - seen as pretty left field (like David Ike and his lizards). So safe to snigger at it, as it was very much a minority interest.

Who’d’ve think it, 40 years on, and this nonsense (probably the brainchild of some bad acid) has capture the imagination of the yoof?

EightiesRobot · 18/07/2021 16:09

How long has it been since feminist theory in Waterstones was replaced by gender studies as a separate category? Looking at that section in the store, there is a few second wave feminist tracts mixed with a huge amount of gender studies. Which, given the number of sections dedicated to gender elsewhere in the store, seems a little much. Does gender studies really sell that much?

beastlyslumber · 17/07/2021 16:40

I hope Blair White publishes something- I'm sure it's just a matter of time. Lighthouse et al will self combust trying to justify banning a trans author.

Ooh yes, I'm a big fan of Blair White (although not so much of Blaire's plans to become a 'mum') and that will make some people very confused Grin

KimikosNightmare · 17/07/2021 13:19

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Not sure - how many male authors get death the threats, cancelled book launched/offers, publishing house staff blackmailing their employers/flouncing off if she dares to voice an opinion They Don’t Like.

Maybe we need womans spaces more than ever now.

I don't know about death threats but Jordan Peterson has had all of the others

Peterson doesn't need say a "conservative" bookshop or publisher - he needed and got a publisher that stood its ground. Obviously it helps that he's so profitable.

My local Waterstone's hasn't toned the Harry Potter memorabilia one whit. My local Toppings has JKR first editions on prominent display. Both have Abigail Shrier's book in stock for click and collect this afternoon if I want to buy it.

I hope Blair White publishes something- I'm sure it's just a matter of time. Lighthouse et al will self combust trying to justify banning a trans author.

beastlyslumber · 17/07/2021 09:57

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Not sure - how many male authors get death the threats, cancelled book launched/offers, publishing house staff blackmailing their employers/flouncing off if she dares to voice an opinion They Don’t Like.

Maybe we need womans spaces more than ever now.

But this women's book shop is actually part of that same problem.

I'd love to see a 'cancelled' book shop, which stocked all the books that people have ever tried to ban.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 17/07/2021 09:54

Not sure - how many male authors get death the threats, cancelled book launched/offers, publishing house staff blackmailing their employers/flouncing off if she dares to voice an opinion They Don’t Like.

Maybe we need womans spaces more than ever now.

2Rebecca · 17/07/2021 09:43

I agree with beastley slumbar. I like my changing rooms to be women only but don't care that much about the sex of authors particularly if it's fiction. It seems to be limiting what you read for the sake of it. Women's bookshops were important in the Virago days when female authors were ignored by other book shops but they seem unnecessary now especially when businesses like Lighthouse show that a "women's " bookshop can be more likely to restrict which female authors it stock and which "type" of woman it wants as a customer than a mainstream bookshop where books are books.

Rhannion · 16/07/2021 21:33

This new book shop in Stockbridge is going to sell only fiction, that’s a huge oversight in my opinion.

beastlyslumber · 11/07/2021 18:13

I agree KimikosNightmare. There's no need to separate males and females in terms of writing - there's no sex difference in writing ability.

KimikosNightmare · 11/07/2021 18:08

@beastlyslumber

Not sure what about my post makes you relate it to Lighthouse? They are super woke as far as I can tell. I went in there once about eight years ago - never again!
I was trying to think of a justification for hiving off women's writing. I suggest if one is particularly interested in the sort of left- wing hectoring that Lighthouse specialises in it keeps it one place.

Personally I don't even see the need for women only writing prizes- far less women only bookshops.

Flgbusterhereagain · 11/07/2021 18:01

I dunno, I think this is fine really - it's a business tbh they can do what they like. Nice to have a bookstore that make a conscious decision to sell books written by women. If there are some trans authors in there so what.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 11/07/2021 17:58

Speaking of books... do search for ‘rainbow monkey library’. It is not an April fool...

beastlyslumber · 11/07/2021 17:56

Not sure what about my post makes you relate it to Lighthouse? They are super woke as far as I can tell. I went in there once about eight years ago - never again!

KimikosNightmare · 11/07/2021 17:28

@beastlyslumber

This might be an unpopular view here, but I don't really see the need for a women-only bookshop really. Women kind of dominate ficton and you can get their books in every bookshop and online. If they were stocking rare/out of print/indie women's writing then maybe that would be good. Likewise, if they were going to be a feminist bookshop, that would be good too. But as it is, it's just another woke business selling the same books you can buy anywhere. I don't see the point. They're not doing anything for women.

On a related note, I feel the whole idea of 'women's writing' seems to be just another way of trying to put women in the corner. There's really no such thing as women's writing as a general category. There's feminist writing, and women's commercial fiction, and a lot of crime genres are dominated by women, too. But they are so unbelievably diverse, it's reductive to lump it all together as women's writing.

I suppose shops like Lighthouse have a place if that's what one is looking for. They can carry a greater range which is far more easy to find than general bookshops.

Having looked at Lighthouse's website and its hectoring tone I'm fairly certain that I'll never set foot in it.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 11/07/2021 16:49

What is their stance on female authors who used male pseudonyms to get published and taken seriously?

beastlyslumber · 11/07/2021 16:16

A free speech bookshop would be amazing! It would be burned down within days if one opened in Edinburgh :(

ChristinaXYZ · 11/07/2021 14:44

@beastlyslumber

This might be an unpopular view here, but I don't really see the need for a women-only bookshop really. Women kind of dominate ficton and you can get their books in every bookshop and online. If they were stocking rare/out of print/indie women's writing then maybe that would be good. Likewise, if they were going to be a feminist bookshop, that would be good too. But as it is, it's just another woke business selling the same books you can buy anywhere. I don't see the point. They're not doing anything for women.

On a related note, I feel the whole idea of 'women's writing' seems to be just another way of trying to put women in the corner. There's really no such thing as women's writing as a general category. There's feminist writing, and women's commercial fiction, and a lot of crime genres are dominated by women, too. But they are so unbelievably diverse, it's reductive to lump it all together as women's writing.

I agree with most of what you say actually. Let's not put ourselves in the corner nor see ourselves as second. We don't need another category for writers because male/female differences.

If there are women's bookshops though I just wish they would not mis-use the word woman.

As someone else above has said a free speech book shop makes far more sense.

OP posts:
OchonAgusOchonOh · 10/07/2021 14:16

Just an FYI re twitter - you can set up multiple accounts. I have 4Grin. One for work, one for complaints, one for general stuff with friends/family and one for activist stuff.

Info on how to do it at uk.pcmag.com/social-media/132816/how-to-create-and-manage-multiple-twitter-accounts

beastlyslumber · 10/07/2021 14:09

This might be an unpopular view here, but I don't really see the need for a women-only bookshop really. Women kind of dominate ficton and you can get their books in every bookshop and online. If they were stocking rare/out of print/indie women's writing then maybe that would be good. Likewise, if they were going to be a feminist bookshop, that would be good too. But as it is, it's just another woke business selling the same books you can buy anywhere. I don't see the point. They're not doing anything for women.

On a related note, I feel the whole idea of 'women's writing' seems to be just another way of trying to put women in the corner. There's really no such thing as women's writing as a general category. There's feminist writing, and women's commercial fiction, and a lot of crime genres are dominated by women, too. But they are so unbelievably diverse, it's reductive to lump it all together as women's writing.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 10/07/2021 13:17

Oh yes. One of those where they teach you how to cook and then you eat it.

Women round a pot, stirring and plotting and cackling, sharing songs, stories and poems. John Knox would be horrified.

Sounds amazing

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 10/07/2021 13:08

@TeaAndStrumpets

I think a cookhouse SUPPORTING free speech would have a lovely atmosphere Smile
I'd eat there!
TeaAndStrumpets · 10/07/2021 10:31

I think a cookhouse SUPPORTING free speech would have a lovely atmosphere Smile

Cailleach1 · 10/07/2021 09:31

Not cookhouse, book shop.

Cailleach1 · 10/07/2021 09:31

@Rhannion

Yes Lighthouse have the right to hold that view, however they also lobbied to stop women speaking at Edinburgh University
A cookhouse against free speech! Wow. If they lobbied for someone to be denied free speech, I wonder if they would lobby for their books to be banned/censored/burned too.
NoSquirrels · 10/07/2021 00:42

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

I think the market for hypersensitive woke bookshops is fairly saturated in Edinburgh.
Grin