A boy in dd’s Guides Unit

@4PawsGood

What do you think of that definition? Anyone who identifies as a woman/girl is a woman/girl?

My DS came home after a talk in school and wondered if a boy in his class might be a girl because that particular boy had an interest that DS thought of a “girly”. (Thank you external speaker).

Do you think that if DS’ friend or DS would identify as girls, they would fit into girl guides? Before I had my clarifying talk with DS, I am sure he would have been able to tell them how to “do girly” better as well.

GG has chosen to allow 'transgirls' and transwomen in. That isn't in itself a problem.

However with doing that it hasn't updated its safeguarding practices to keep the sexes separate on camping.
In fact it has done worse than that, it has gone down a 'remove informed consent' route whereby it won't tell the parents or the girls if they will be sharing with an opposite sex guide, nor whether the overall leader (who in the past had to be a woman) might in fact by a transwoman.

Scouts is mixed sex but has kept safeguarding.

What guides has done is throwing safeguarding out of the window.

@4PawsGood

That doesn't make sense. You can't "identify" as your sex. You simple are your sex.

If you can identify as either sex then single sex spaces couldn't possibly exist.

I’ve just just said what the definition is, haven’t I? Women or those who identify as women?

I’m not making a statement on this situation, just stating what it is.

@Coyoacan Oh dear. I didn't know that. I'm really sorry to hear that.

Have you considered moving your daughter to the scouts? I used to be a Beaver leader and it's a lot of fun. In Scouts we're completely neurotic about safeguarding (in the nicest possible way).

You daughter would be very safe there. Also she is guaranteed to meet boys and get to understand them in a safe and supervised environment, which is actually pretty cool.

If you have any questions about Scouting I'd be glad to try and answer. The badges are really good I think.

@StrongLegs The problem is that GG has thrown safeguarding out the window and is not careful at all. In fact being careful is frowned upon.

1. Males are accepted as guides and leaders if they say they are girls and women.

2. Parents are not allowed to know if there is a male guide or leader, not even on trips away.

Scouts, etc. that are officially mixed sex, have all the necessary safeguarding in place, but GG is still ostensibly single sex and only has safeguarding in place for boys and men who accept that they are male.

[quote GromblesofGrimbledon]@TedImgoingmad

I hope that things change and you feel comfortable to stay on. [/quote]
Thank you @GromblesofGrimbledon. They have just done a consultation and doubled down on it all, even though they had a perfect chance to do a bit of back tracking. The problem they have is, if they do backtrack, how do the deal with the trans girls and trans women they have already allowed to join the organisation.

No, boys can't join Brownies. Girl Guiding is only for girls, biological or self-identifying

Some boys can join guides but boys who identify as boys are discriminated on the basis of gender reassignment and not allowed to join.

The first night I went to guides I was really perplexed because one of the guides "was a boy". I remember going home and telling my Mum about it.

The "boy" however, was in fact definitely a girl. She was called Lynn and went on to be happily married to a lovely chap, and she had two children. She just looked really like a boy.

It was a bit like George in the Famous Five, if you know those stories. I mean sometimes girls can look really like boys and behave really like boys, and actually be definitely girls.

I think you could probably ring up the leader and ask as well and it would be fine.

If there was any concern at all about residentials then they would be all over it They are very careful about stuff like that.

You are correct only insofar as the boy in question identifies as a girl. Biological boys who identify as boys cannot join Brownies, Rainbows, Guides or Rangers.

No, boys can't join Brownies. Girl Guiding is only for girls, biological or self-identifying. Scouts/Cubs/Beavers is for both boys and girls

Exactly

sanityisamyth, do you think it is good that it is mixed?

Our children do many activities that is mainly single sex but they don’t really need it. Our girls are tough, happy to play football with the boys, very competitive and talk a lot. I have seen many shy, uncertain girls that I think would benefit immensely from a more supportive and less competitive environment. The dynamic is very difficult when boys are present.

Still, the great thing about mumsnet is that it is hard to derail intelligent discussion. I value knowing about different perspectives, but evidence and logic tends to lead here unlike other social media environments and I suspect the structure makes disingenuous contributions easier to spot.

Yes. It's the reason its's so relentlessly targeted. Transactivists on Twitter make no secret of their campaigns to shut mumsnet down.

We have girls in our Beavers' colony. Boys can join brownies. It's not a problem or indicative of any gender or identity issues.

I must say, for boys that are doing sports, they do have a lot of single sex opportunities with fabulous coaches.

DS plays both football and cricket outside school and it is mostly boys only and amazing, male coaches who really care about the boys.

Girls don’t really have the same. We do netball (which also is exclusively single sex) but that really isn’t for everyone. It seems more skill based and competitive (counterintuitive) and I can see how less sporty girls would be put off by it. There is less scope for just having fun with the ball which many football camps seem to be.

I think guides seem to be an amazing opportunity for the girls that are more shy and less sporty. It is such a shame if they are made to be mixed.

Positive male role models for boys would be very useful.

Yes. I wish more decent men would step up and be positive role models for boys.

And it's a shame, isn't it, that more men haven't stepped up.

Positive male role models for boys would be very useful.

In that case, apologies, @Bbq1. I'm afraid I was catapulted right back to the days of the toddler group where two or three of us did all the work and a couple of dozen others just sat and complained about the quality of the coffee.

In that case, apologies, @Bbq1. I'm afraid I was catapulted right back to the days of the toddler group where two or three of us did all the work and a couple of dozen others just sat and complained about the quality of the coffee.

@TedImgoingmad

I hope that things change and you feel comfortable to stay on.

@Hoosi

DD describe them as older, tall, long hair, low voice. She didn’t know their name, and didn’t assume it was a boy because of short hair

Just ask the leaders. They definitely won't want you to feel uncomfortable. A space where your daughter feels safe and comfortable will be the leaders number one priority (and by extension that means you as her mum being comfortable)