#RepealTheGRA apparently 'hails from the right

Plenty of TRA counter protestors were committing violence too and it's not the fault of women and mothers who wanted to make a stand with a peaceful protest. Women are not responsible for what men do.

The Proud Boys and Antifa are two sides of the same coin. Both will hijack anything looking for a fight. Nothing to do with women who have a legal right to protest.

So women should just shut up about things that happen to them in case other people share the video?

There's plenty of evidence that the Wi Spa has had this issue going back a few years. I guess #metoo and #believewomen is no longer a thing anymore for many on the left.

I'm not sure what evidence would be good enough for you? If the woman had videoed the male person with his penis out in the female spa as absolute proof you'd all be calling her a pervert and demanding she be arrested.

As I said on another thread this obscenely high burden of proof now expected of women and girls who have been violated is very Sharia like.

Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore.

Andrea Dworkin

A left wing woman has a huge number of relevant things in common with a right wing woman, which she does not have in common with a TW.

you're describing it as a toxic ex, as opposed to other people asking you not to partner with far-right sexists who want to roll back gay and women's rights (like, again, Spain with the Feminist party and the Vox party) or self-described neo-nazis who want to kill all the gays (like the recent Wi Spa hoax that led to a trans ally counter-protestor being attacked with a lead pipe by a Proud Boy).

Here, I have an idea. If the left stops no-platforming feminists (which so far has included a number of black feminists, by the way), then left-wing women won't have to make deals with right-wings you don't like in order to actually speak themselves.

Honestly, it's crazy. It's like an abusive boyfriend who dumps a woman and then gets in a rage when she starts a relationship with someone else.

no, feel free to continue holding and championing women's rights or gender-critical beliefs. the article addresses the fact that, what has happened across Europe, is that gender-critical feminists follow public gender-critical figures who ally with far-right figures and roll back women's rights.
carry on championing gender-critical rights, but be wary of the people standing beside you. there was recently footage of a Proud Boy (neo-nazi) attacking a trans ally with a lead pipe at the Wi Spa in LA, bc Gender-Critical feminists and actual neo-nazis (separately, not name calling) shared (the same) video of a woman claiming a transgender woman had exposed herself (despite there being no evidence supporting this claim).
basically, feel free to continue championing your beliefs. when it comes to women's rights, like the Right to Choose, workplace rights, Me Too, all that sort, I am completely with you. but when it comes to the more Gender-critical stuff, I'd start to think about why some of the people standing with you are self-described fascists.

Even if every feminist woman on the left everywhere kept completely silent people on the right of the political spectrum are still going to notice what's been going on.

They have eyes and ears just like everyone else so when they watch the Olympics and see Laurel Hubbard competing they don't need a left wing woman to tell them something is very off.

If a right wing woman encounters an exposed penis in a female space she doesn't need a left wing woman to tell her what her own eyes do.

I don't agree with the pro life movement but pro life women are still female like the rest of us and have as much right to object to mixed sex spaces as anyone else.

It's ridiculous to think that feminists are the only reason the right wing can see something is seriously up.

like, gender-critical "feminists" speaking at rallies hosted by far-right anti-abortion types.

Really? Rallies? Goodness. Who was that then?

Okay so I can't say that I necessarily agree with Ruth but the Institute of Race Relations makes a pretty good case that, even if it originates entirely in feminist policy, gender-critical feminism tends to result in the amplification and enabling of bigots. like, gender-critical "feminists" speaking at rallies hosted by far-right anti-abortion types.

No, not right wing. Actually I usually get accused of being a socialist, which isn't true either but more correct than right wing.

Julie Bindel co-wrote this article with Melanie Newman, about a human rights lawyer, Professor Robert Wintemute, who co-signed the Yogyakarta Principles. Prof Wintemute seems to think the GRA should be repealed (at least, he doesn't seem to think it should have been passed).

Having listened to women and had his “eyes opened”, Wintemute has travelled so far from his original position that he now wonders whether the GRA and prior laws in Europe should have been passed. “The arguments made at that time were that people had done everything they could to appear to be of the opposite sex, but the fact that their appearance did not match their official documents put them at risk of violence, harassment, or discrimination,” he says.

Instead of changing the person’s legal sex, the law could have simply sought to protect people from harm triggered by the difference between their legal sex and their appearance on the basis of their presentation, he suggests. “This would remove much of the current conflict, as it would affirm trans people’s birth sex as their legal sex, while ensuring their protection from discrimination based on gender non-conforming appearance or behaviour.”

“Birth sex is less important now, with same-sex marriage and equal state pension ages. But in my view birth sex is not an irrelevant detail and should not be automatically ‘trumped’ by gender identity in single-sex situations.”

thecritic.co.uk/issues/april-2021/the-trans-rights-that-trump-all/

Does anyone know for sure if Julie Bindel is in favour of repealing the GRA or not? My understanding was that she does think it should be repealed. And I thought she & Ruth Serwotka were on the same page so far as wanting to distance themselves from right wing GC people, I'm sure they've shared each other's tweets on that.

She honestly thinks the family is a right wing construct.

Someone needs to let her know that women's rights apply to and concern all women, including those who don't subscribe to her peculiar feminist and political ideologies.
We'll carry on discussing and campaigning around the issues that concern us, thank you very much, even if the 'professional' and political classes of feminists disapprove of our conversations.

Ruth Serwotka
@ruthserwotka
·
Jul 6
I see there are lots of ppl who believe they are very good at analysing the law (and they probably are) but they are not very good at politics. There has to be a settlement between two sets of rights and reforming the GRA is not the way to come to that settlement.

To be fair to ruth, ruth probably does need to appease men to remain in politics.

'There has to be a settlement between two sets of rights and reforming the GRA is not the way to come to that settlement.'

???

What, with

No debate
Deplatforming
Going after any woman who says anything even dictionary defn trying to get her sacked, reporting for hate crime, threats etc
The fact that whatever is obtained is never enough eg wispa it's little girls being rude
The constant pushing of incorrect stats even though they go against Samaritans etc guidelines
The never ending changes to language so that even phrases ok 2 weeks ago eg pregnant people are now moving to even more convoluted language
The not addressing in any way genuine concerns about creepy/violent etc men. Because women who know self ID into everywhere is an obvious and huge risk are hysterical prudes Dec etc

And so on.

Settlement? How could that even happen? And anyway, that's not what's wanted by the activists for trans rights.

Oh piss off Ruth.

[quote MiladyBerserko]Her Twitter is saying we (the alleged right wingers) don't understand politics. Her 'left' have understood and capitalised on that understanding, yes?

mobile.twitter.com/ruthserwotka/status/1412498369184944131[/quote]
Well that's an unfortunately telling typo in the original tweet saying reforming the GRA instead of repealing.

Nah, done with the mealy mouthed sell out politicos who will trample on the women they don't approve of to press a political agenda with compromises they approve of.
Not your call anymore, Ruth. Navel gaze all you want, the issue has moved way past your appeasement policies.

Her Twitter is saying we (the alleged right wingers) don't understand politics. Her 'left' have understood and capitalised on that understanding, yes?

mobile.twitter.com/ruthserwotka/status/1412498369184944131

I’m a left leaning remain voter and I want the GRA repealed. Happy for anyone to identify however they please but a man is not and never can be a woman. Genetically they are always men and they commit crime at the same rate and in the same ways as men and women need protection from men. The GRA opens the door for predatory men who can just say they’re ‘intending to transition’. Just playing dress up doesn’t make a man a woman. Ridiculous law!

This is not surprising from Ruth. While most FWR women would consider themselves as at least left of centre, perhaps even socialist on the economics, Ruth is is socialist in the feminist sense as well. This means that there is plenty of overlap with genderism in her views. For example, she agrees with them about heteronormativity being A Very Bad Thing and with BLM that the family is an irretrievably patriarchal institution that should be abolished.

See, for example, this tweet

twitter.com/ruthserwotka/status/1412489298180517890

The right want to limit women's reproductive rights and enforce a family model on women which is oppressive. women's liberation is about more than one issue.

And this quote from one of her FB posts:

As feminists we should consider the family a repressive institution which often upholds patriarchal roles of male dominance and subjugates women to a lifetime of caring for others.

She honestly thinks the family is a right wing construct.

Sometimes Far Right and Far Left both go so far that they meet on the other sided of the political sphere and become indistinguishable from each other.

Consider how much they have in common when they reach this point: controlling people's speech, policing people's thoughts, supporting informers, punishing non-conformists and reactionaries by removing their livelihoods.