#RepealTheGRA apparently 'hails from the right

Cat person here. I come correct.

The Kibbutz method looks like it died out naturally because it didn't work on a human level. BLM are espousing a similar model, so I would have thought that in itself would set alarm bells ringing.

I will respond to you!

Yes. Communal childrearing doesn't work, which is why, outside of the totalitarian countries who have tried it, kibbutzim died out naturally as a national force within a generation.

I posted about Ruth's views on the family mostly so that people would understand why she is forever banging on about right wing forces. This section of the crank left does genuinely believe you are right wing if you don't want to abolish the family - thus rendering 99% of the country right wing, whether they like it or not. Much as the Woke wing of the Labour Party likes to call her a right wing bigot, she has as much in common with them as she does with us.

Mostly.

Also, I like both cats and dogs. Is there a non-binary version of this commune? #TeamCog

The problems within the nuclear family structure don't go away in that scenario, they just apply across more people.

Girls and women.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable

The problem with no particular person having responsibility is that all the exhausting jobs are still there: the endless bottom and snotty nose wiping, putting overtired screaming toddlers to bed, watching them so they don't drown in the bath or climb onto things they can fall off of.
That's the kind of shit that some people don't even think of, and others don't feel like they have any choice in doing because they know that if they don't do it, the child won't get fed/nappy changed etc.
The problems within the nuclear family structure don't go away in that scenario, they just apply across more people.

#Meow

Things just got serious.

Whoh.

This'll be the Fight Thread of 2021.

#TeamDog

The problem is, whenever I've been in a group of women who start fantasising about this kind of future there always seems to be a lot of cats involved in the plan and I'm a dog person.

OK.

Go well.

Was that snark aimed at me, PurpleHoodie?

My purpose in posting was to answer the question above about how dismantling the family unit set up is supposed to look, and who is promoting it. The Kibbutz method looks like it died out naturally because it didn't work on a human level. BLM are espousing a similar model, so I would have thought that in itself would set alarm bells ringing.

Most posters here ignore anything I post anyway, so no need to panic. Having spent way too much time on FWR trying to stop it being fucked over by TRAs, I won't bother any more.

Why do people persevere in trying to plop North American cultural shoite into MN FWR?

Eh?

FFS. Is that more imported North American shoite that we can quite easily ignore?

I say, yes.

So. Back to reality.

Black Lives Matter used to espouse this:

“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and ‘villages’ that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable,”

(Removed from the website following a hoohah).

tinsel

I'm totally cats.

I'll support you from three doors down

On child rearing:

Although the children were not raised directly by their parents, they knew who their parents were and formed close bonds with them. Throughout the morning, parents looked forward to the end of the work day when they could go to the children's house and pick up the children to play with them and dote on them.

Children's societies were one of the features of kibbutz life that most interested outsiders. In the heyday of children's societies, parents would only spend two hours a day, typically in the afternoon, with their children. In Kibbutz Artzi parents were explicitly forbidden to put their children to bed at night. As children got older, parents could go for days on end without seeing their offspring, other than through chance encounters somewhere in the grounds.

Some children who went through children's societies said they loved the experience, others remain ambivalent. One vocal group maintains that growing up without one's parents was very difficult. Years later, a kibbutz member described her childhood in a children's society:

Allowed to suckle every four hours, left to cry and develop our lungs, we grew up without the basic security needed for survival. Sitting on the potty at regular intervals next to other children doing the same, we were educated to be the same; but we were, for all that, different.... At night the grownups leave and turn off all the lights. You know you will wet the bed because it is too frightening to go to the lavatory.

....

In a 1977 study, Fox[citation needed] compared the separation effects experienced by kibbutz children when removed from their mother, compared with removal from their caregiver (called a metapelet in Hebrew). He found that the child showed separation distress in both situations but, when reunited, children were significantly more attached to their mothers than to the metapelet. The children protested subsequent separation from their mothers when the metapelet was reintroduced to them. However, kibbutzim children shared high bonding with their parents as compared to those who were sent to boarding schools, because children in a kibbutz spent three to four hours with their parents every day.

In another study by Scharf, the group brought up in a communal environment within a kibbutz showed less ability in coping with imagined situations of separation than those who were brought up with their families.[33] This has far reaching implications for child attachment adaptability and therefore institutions like kibbutzim. These interesting kibbutz techniques are controversial with or without these studies.

A mixture of criticism and nostalgia by some 20 adults born in Kibbutzim in the 1930s was documented in the 2007 film Children of the Sun. The film raised much controversy and brought about a flood of reactions in favor and against the practices of child raising in Kibbutzim in those early years of the Kibbutz. Interviews were interlaced with original footage.

The organisation of child rearing within the kibbutzim was largely based around adult imperatives rather than what was best for the children; collective parenting was seen as a means of establishing gender equality between men and women. This was a common feature of many utopian communities.

I'm a dog person too, tinsel. We'll have a dog-centric old ladies household together.

I could see a living with other (sensible) women when I am old if something happens to DH. Lots of adults pulling their weight

The problem is, whenever I've been in a group of women who start fantasising about this kind of future there always seems to be a lot of cats involved in the plan and I'm a dog person.

More from Wiki

In the first couple of decades there was no traditional marriage in the kibbutz. If a man and woman wanted to get married, they went to the housing office and requested a room together. Not having traditional marriage was seen as a way to dissolve the patriarchy and give women their own standing without depending on a man (economically or socially) and was also viewed as a positive thing for the community as a whole, as communal life was the main aspect of the kibbutz.

When the first children were born at the kibbutz, the founders were worried that this would tie the women to domestic service. They thought that the only difference between a man and a woman was that women gave birth and thus were automatically tied to the children and domestic duties. The communal dining and laundry were already a part of the kibbutz from the start. Of course they were implemented for reasons of living communally, but also to emancipate women from these duties so they were free to work in other sectors. With the arrival of the children, it was decided that they would be raised communally and sleep communally to free women to work in other fields. The desire to liberate women from traditional maternal duties was an ideological underpinning of the children's society system. Women were "emancipated from the yoke of domestic service" in that their children were taken care of, and the laundry and cooking was done communally.

Women born on kibbutzim were much less reluctant to perform traditional female roles. Eventually most women gravitated towards the service sector. The second generation of women who were born on the kibbutz eventually got rid of the children's houses and the Societies of Children. Most found that although they had a positive experience growing up in the children's house, wanted their own children at home with them.

More from Wiki:

The role of gender equality on the kibbutz is very complex and has gone through cycles since the founding of the first kibbutzim. Since there were many different kibbutzim, women had different experiences at each particular one. Some say that women were and are completely equal to men on the kibbutz while others insist there has always been inequality.

In the early days of the movement, kibbutzim tended to be male-dominated with significantly more male members. Nevertheless, women performed many of the same tasks as men. Both men and women worked in the fields, performed guard duty, and heavy labor.[29] However, mostly women filled the traditional female roles, such as cooking, sewing, and cleaning.

Same old, same old then. Sure men loved it.

Well that sounds like a perfect recipe for child abuse.

although why this would be a better deal for women was never clear to me.

In a kibbutz, women were supposedly freed up from child rearing and allowed to work. Women and children freed up from a patriarchal structure. From Wiki:

When the first children were born at the kibbutz there were inevitably some ethical dilemmas that needed to be solved. One of these was that the kibbutz was striving for equality, including the equality of the sexes. Women were only seen as separate because they gave birth to children, automatically tying them to the domestic sphere. In order to liberate women and promote gender equality, they could not be tied to solely domestic duties and child care giving. The Kibbutz wanted to give women the opportunity to continue their work in the agricultural sector and industrial sector.[27] As such, "Communal education is the first step towards woman's liberation." Chayuta Bussel

Along with gender equality, the issue of parenting under the communal way of life was a concern. The parental tendency is to view the child as a personal possession and to dominate them. The founding members of the kibbutz agreed that this was not conducive to community life. They also thought it was selfish of parents to want to control their children and that this did not give room for the child to grow as their own person.

To solve these issues the founders created the communal children's houses, where the children would spend most of their time; learning, playing and sleeping. Parents spent three to four hours a day in the afternoon with their children after work and before dinner.

Collective childrearing was also a way to escape the patriarchal society that the founders came from. Children would not be dependent on their fathers economically, socially, legally or otherwise and this would eliminate the father's authority and uproot the patriarchy.

In the children's houses, trained nurses and teachers were the care givers. It was felt that relationships of the children and their parents would be better because parents would not have to be the sole disciplinarians. Children grew up in the community environment and grew up with children who were born in the same year as them. The financial responsibility of the children was shared by the community.