AIBU to think naked males shouldn’t be in the women only section of a spa?

Please tell us just how many Transmen go through metoidioplasty or phalloplasty, and scrotoplasty.

Hardly any, I hope, given that the operation appears to have very poor results and a high risk of complications.

In any event, as others have said, a transman who had had this surgery would surely be extremely unlikely to choose to go into the women's section. From a combination of wanting validation and the residual effects of female socialisation, I'd expect this tiny group to go to the men's section, and I hope they're safe there.

That's a pretty big lie, isn't it

Huuuuuge!

I’d say surprising but obviously its not surprising at all

Its incredibly obvious that FWR, or sex and gender as its called now, and its regular posters are under completely different rules

To be fair…and i really like to be fair….different mods have different opinions and red lines themselves. But a degree of consistency would be nice

WHY was this thread moved ?
Everyone needs to see this .

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

I've answered. I said a transman's penis is also not ok. No penis is ok in female spaces. I'm not fussed whether the penis is real or surgically constructed. The owner of said penis needs to take it to a different space.

I knew this thread would end up here.

YANBU OP, for the 4% who disagreed, some words.

YANBU. I'm not sure what the justification could be that you are.

Someone said upthread that the poll was 96% in favour of reality.

I thought it was 96% YANBU

Anyone know what the aibu score was before the thread moved?

Guessing highly in support of women's rights because they usually are on this predominantly female website?

I might choose to believe MN moved the thread to preserve an honest score before hordes of anti woman activists were awoken in America to game it to their advantage.

Before it was widely known to be a Korean spa, I saw various self-important men on twitter pompously lecturing others on how we all needed to shed our Western conditioning and learn to enjoy mixed-sex nude spas.

I tried reporting one of the Aibu Corona threads, was told no it could stay in AIBU. So it's not a case of moving to most appropriate board for every topic.

This should be in AIBU. I assume the OP wanted to put it there for a poll. The fact that it has apparently has been moved means that Mumsnet must be very, very afraid of the results of that poll and what they'll experience after it. I have read the Mumsnet explanation and I'm not convinced. All it does is reinforce the view that the Sex & Gender Debate forum has been reduced to a naughty corner, vulnerable to deletion in future.

[quote GromblesofGrimbledon]@beastlyslumber

Love Gad Saad!

Genital fluidity [/quote]
Hahaha me too! He has a way of getting to the heart of issues

Would never go to a mixed sex version, so I’d be unable to enjoy it anymore ...

Why should we have to do things the German way because of a bunch of self-important jackasses?

''the look on her face when two men walked in was priceless though, they both stared at me looked at each other apologised and walked straight back out.''
''After about 30 seconds one of the men popped his head back in and asked “This is the mixed sauna?” our new companion told them it was before either of us could. So while a little embarrassed they both came back in and sat on the benches on the right hand side on the room and at least made the pretence of making eye contact through the steam. Invariably both were wearing swimming shorts and for some reason one of them had decided to place the towel on his lap rather than sit on it.''
mostlyamelie.com/vabali-spa-berlin/

@beastlyslumber

Love Gad Saad!

Genital fluidity

@Redapplewreath

I agree that I cannot give consent for others. This is simply my personal line in the sand. I only draw this conclusion from having spent time around transwomen who I would have no clue were biologically male.

For the sake of a tiny minority of people who I don't think are a threat, I think if we got this right there would be the rarest of occasions of transwomen in female spaces and people would be none the wiser.

I think society has buggered it up big time and the issues we have now are because of self-ID. Self-ID can be policed. We have the ability to stamp it out if we stand up to it now. In all honesty, I don't see how a minuscule, and I mean miniscule, population of genuine transwomen can be policed in such a manner. If we'd got this right as a society from the get-go, I doubt we'd need to think on it this much.

We've let too much slide. That's why we're in the mess we're in.

I'll just leave this here...

f these things can happen I'll entertain the question of allowing the vanishingly small minority of committed transwomen into female spaces.

I understand and appreciate what you're saying, but other female people's consent isn't yours to give. There are female people who, if any male person is present regardless of degree of transition, can no longer access that female space due to disabilities, trauma, faith, culture, a need for privacy and dignity among other reasons. Those women have a right to access public life too.

And as has been repeatedly shown, no gatekeeping is possible. The GRA WAS this compromise, it was this attempt to allow some male people to have this option. It's been demonstrated past all doubt that 'some' means 'all', gatekeeping is impossible, and too many male people regardless of degree of transition are not able to use female spaces with respect for female people and their boundaries.

The answer is, as with everything, a third option must be provided. Everyone has the option of their sex based provision, or the mixed sex provision. If services want to add specific inclusive women/inclusive men/NB/anything else sessions, brilliant. Diversify, meet the needs. But female people needing female only spaces get their needs met too.