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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Employee using pronouns. Help!

363 replies

OfNobody · 01/07/2021 15:20

Hi all,

A friend of mine has just taken on a new recruit and he's just realised that she uses pronouns after her name on her email signature.

He'd love for her not to do that because he's GC himself (and has a very traditional client base) but can he ask her to stop? Is that in itself discrimination?

Would love to advise him but generally, all the work issues I see around this run in the opposite direction (employers asking employees for pronouns).

Any experience of this, or any insight into how he can politely request that she drop the pronouns without ending up on the front cover of The Guardian?

From what he said, she doesn't sound like a massive raging handmaiden. She's just fresh out of uni and obviously thinks this is the way to go.

OP posts:
Albien · 01/07/2021 21:17

Are you telling me that you would think it reasonable for an atheist to be offended simply by a believer stating that they subscribed to a particular faith?
I’m fairly certain a Christian would be offended if I put in my email signature that I worship Satan. And if I wrote in my email signature that I’m a devotee of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster I’m sure some people would read that and think I was nuts. Equally if my signature proclaimed that I voted Leave it would alienate some Remain voters. The best thing is to leave religion, belief and politics out of the workplace and certainly out of your email signature.

Quaggars · 01/07/2021 21:14

Who cares what people call you when you’re not there?

I'd have thought more for situations like this

Person 1 - "I got an email off Chris the other day, he said.....

Person 2 - "Chris is female"

Person 1 - "Ah"

DysmalRadius · 01/07/2021 21:13

On what basis are all those saying "it will reflect badly on your company if people do this?"
No it won't , unless you assume that everyone thinks the same as you.

Because it's not a neutral statement, it's an unnecessary ideological addition that adds nothing and could potentially alienate clients.

KimikosNightmare · 01/07/2021 21:12

@DadJoke

Why would being gender critical make you object to people including their pronouns in an email if they want to? Our CEO does it because she's fed up of people assuming she's a man.
I'm not gender critical.

I would however assume anyone doing this in a business e-mail is a virtue signalling prat and I would take my business elsewhere.

Quaggars · 01/07/2021 21:11

No it won't , unless you assume that everyone thinks the same as you

And that goes the other way too

Yes, that's what I said!
I said it should be personal choice to put them in or not, and can appreciate some people don't want to which is fair enough.
What others choose to do is surely up to them though.
Saying they can't include them because you don't want them to or agree is exactly the same attitude as anyone saying you have to include your pronouns.

merrymouse · 01/07/2021 21:06

No it won't , unless you assume that everyone thinks the same as you

That is precisely why it’s a bad idea to put statements of belief in work auto signatures. People don’t all think the same.

Throckmorton · 01/07/2021 21:06

Calling out being she/her disadvantages women and transwomen in the workplace. I would suggest he says he doesn't want to risk that as he cares about equality

DysmalRadius · 01/07/2021 21:05

Praise the Lord' is an exhortation - I can see why that might offend a non-believer, for example.

Adding 'she/her' after your name is a statement

Surely it's also an exhortation for the reader to use those pronouns when referring to that person? Otherwise what's the point?

Lessthanaballpark · 01/07/2021 21:04

Who cares what people call you when you’re not there?

Etorih · 01/07/2021 21:03

No it won't , unless you assume that everyone thinks the same as you

And that goes the other way too. Assuming that everyone embraces gender ideology. The big push back would indicate they don't. Making a political statement, and that is what it is, is not a good idea for companies who want to sell.

Quaggars · 01/07/2021 21:01

On what basis are all those saying "it will reflect badly on your company if people do this?"
No it won't , unless you assume that everyone thinks the same as you.
I can understand why people might not want to put them in their signature themselves, as it's personal choice, isn't it.
Somebody else doing it has absolutely no bearing on you though.
Insisting your boss says she can't do it is surely as bad as the other way round everybody moans about, like you shouldn't be forced to put them in if you don't want to?
Complete double standards and a bit hypocritical to say this Any experience of this, or any insight into how he can politely request that she drop the pronouns

From what he said, she doesn't sound like a massive raging handmaiden.
I'd biscuit but know thats frowned upon nowadays.

MaMelon · 01/07/2021 20:58

There are plenty of people who'd respond positively to pronouns in an email

And equally, there are plenty of people who don’t respond positively to them - esp if they are used in a professional capacity.

merrymouse · 01/07/2021 20:57

There are plenty of people who'd respond positively to pronouns in an email

There are plenty of people who would respond positively to ‘take back control’. It still isn’t appropriate for work email.

Etorih · 01/07/2021 20:56

There are plenty of people who'd respond positively to pronouns in an email.

That's nice. It's good you all identify yourselves ☺️

Arbadacarba · 01/07/2021 20:55

@Etorih

You're coming out with wilder and wilder assertions in your efforts to demonstrate that adding pronouns to an email signature is a bad idea.

Lol. Try harder. I won't be adding them. I wouldn't employ anyone who wanted to add them. It's passive aggressive virtue signalling. That's it. Although on the plus side, I know who to avoid / what companies not to buy from when people do that 👍

That's your prerogative - I'm not a company owner, I don't care who you do or don't buy from.

There are plenty of people who'd respond positively to pronouns in an email, and, I suspect, an even larger raft of people who DGAF either way.

KimikosNightmare · 01/07/2021 20:54

@QueenofDestruction

My company even dictates what font etc you must use and the standard email signature cannot be changed , ang change would lead to a disciplinary. Including personal unnecessary information is also not allowed in accordance with company policies, as GDPR dictates that personal information shared during our job is strictly necessary only. The company should not be allowing the sharing of gender identification on company email.
^ This. 100%.
merrymouse · 01/07/2021 20:54

Adding 'she/her' after your name is a statement

Yes, a statement of belief in gender boxes and innate gender identity.

It’s quite possible to put ‘praise the Lord’ on an auto signature without wanting other people to convert.

However, it still wouldn’t be appropriate on a work email signature, unless working for a campaigning organisation.

Neither would ‘take back control’ or
#FBPE

Thelnebriati · 01/07/2021 20:53

Do people have the right to express political views at work? Most places I've worked have a 'no religion or politics' type rule.
My understanding is we have the right to hold opinions, to express them outside of work, and as a general rule that shouldn't affect our job.

Etorih · 01/07/2021 20:53

Kane would probably have he / him pronouns

KimikosNightmare · 01/07/2021 20:53

@Beamur

I think if there is a corporate style then everyone should use that. She might ask why the pronouns are not included though. Your friend might want to think about how they would answer that.
I've never actually seen pronouns in an email signature. Surely all , or the vast majority of businesses, have a corporate style? I'm not allowed to put anything in my email sign off beyond the approved wording- and I'm one of the owners of the business.
Etorih · 01/07/2021 20:53

*Jane even 😂

Etorih · 01/07/2021 20:52

If it's a HR-related email about her absence, it will go on her file, which she'd be entitled under GDPR to access at any time. Where I work, a colleague's absence file is freely available to that colleague without any formal request being necessary

Did you just misgender non binary Jane 😲 I though Kane had they / them pronouns 🤨

QueenofDestruction · 01/07/2021 20:52

My company even dictates what font etc you must use and the standard email signature cannot be changed , ang change would lead to a disciplinary. Including personal unnecessary information is also not allowed in accordance with company policies, as GDPR dictates that personal information shared during our job is strictly necessary only. The company should not be allowing the sharing of gender identification on company email.

MaMelon · 01/07/2021 20:52

Adding 'she/her' after your name is a statement

A statement that is superfluous to requirements in a professional environment. The only additional information that may be required in a signature is a professional qualification.

Arbadacarba · 01/07/2021 20:49

@Siblingquandary

I can see why that might offend a non-believer

Exactly

I'm a non-believer in gender ideology.

You've neatly made my case for me, thanks!

The equivalent of 'Praise the Lord' would be 'State your pronouns'. That's not what's being done.

Are you telling me that you would think it reasonable for an atheist to be offended simply by a believer stating that they subscribed to a particular faith?