Employee using pronouns. Help!

As I said earlier, (and have thought for years, way before any of this Pronoun Ritual stuff), I would like English speakers to make gender neutrals pronouns the default, and only use gendered pronouns when the sex/gender of the person is relevant.

I agree with the sentiment, but don’t think it would ever happen, so I think it’s best to just treat she/he as neutral pronouns that don’t convey somebody’s inner essence.

And additionally, even leaving aside my personal views on it, it's a highly contentious subject that any business would be sensible to give the most widest berth possible. If you don't agree its contentious, note the 234 messages on this thread since 3pm this afternoon, and the amount of disagreement and strength of feeling.

Oh Arabella, don’t delete that from your signature. I think it is a wonderful statement.

If you're "gender critical" should nobody use any pronouns at all? That would be unusual.

I haven't read the article yet but I can confirm that it is hurting women. I received an email at work with pronouns and I honestly felt it like a gut punch. I felt unwelcome and silenced and isolated. The alienation I felt was visceral and reflexive.
To me it signals an allegiance with or at least a sympathy for an ideology that I experience as sexist, misogynistic, homophobic and often racist. A movement that seeks to erode women's rights and break down their sexual boundaries.
Someone with pronouns in their email signature is not an ally to women.

Yes, exactly. It makes me feel very unsafe in the way I imagine a flag or religious symbol can make some people feel unsafe. It can be shrugged off as “just a word, just a flag, just a symbol, meaningful to the person who used it but nothing to do with you at all”, but it tells me something important about how the the person who chooses to stand behind it or the organisation that endorses it thinks about me.

”It’s a thing”
So too is racism.
All sorts of “things” have been “a thing” throughout history.

Great link @ArabellaScott - thanks for sharing it.

This might be useful: womansplaceuk.org/2021/06/27/share-pronouns-at-work/?fbclid=IwAR0JisQu1f7wzA9cUavXpMA2ly8z792CfbaFb43a5hHlE7Czxkwk0os2U0E

Absolutely agree Cattenberg

Somebody else doing it has absolutely no bearing on you though.

I’ve explained more than once that the Ritual of the Stating of the Pronouns affects everyone because it redefines the words that are used to describe everyone in ways they may not agree with.

I am female but not of the womany feeling gender. It’s not a choice, I’m just not. I’m not trans, I’m not non-binary, I’m a female who doesn’t happen to have the thing that trans and cis women recognise in each other. I’m fine with them having it, I’m fine with me not having it.

I also use the pronouns she/her.

But when someone publicly takes ownership of those pronouns as indicators of womany feeling rather than female sex, which is inescapably what the Ritual of the Sharing of the Pronouns does, it means I can’t use them without incorrectly including myself in the womany feeling group, which means lying about who I am. But since I don’t identify as a trans man or non binary, I’m a bit stuck. This is what gets forced onto me not by my own actions but by the action of someone else appropriating my words for their own meanings.

As an aside my husband works for a large international company where plenty of people have ambiguous names due to language and cultural differences. They often communicate by email rather than in person or on calls. He tends to refer to colleagues as 'they' because he knows women get unfairly treated at work and it's not in their interests to draw attention to their sex in general.

[quote mrsborisjohnson]It’s not hurting anyone, it’s showing support for your colleagues.

It's hurting women: legalfeminist.org.uk/2020/07/19/pronouns-compulsion-and-controversy/[/quote]
I haven't read the article yet but I can confirm that it is hurting women. I received an email at work with pronouns and I honestly felt it like a gut punch. I felt unwelcome and silenced and isolated. The alienation I felt was visceral and reflexive.
To me it signals an allegiance with or at least a sympathy for an ideology that I experience as sexist, misogynistic, homophobic and often racist. A movement that seeks to erode women's rights and break down their sexual boundaries.
Someone with pronouns in their email signature is not an ally to women.

So... resolved within a few words? Without any angst..?

Yes, but the conversation would surely carry on.... once you knew, surely you'd say she?
As in carrying on from the last sentence

"Chris is a she "

"Ah"

"So anyway, she was saying about the project she was working on the other day......."

Chris isn't in the room, but would still be referred to her.
Unless the person kept on saying he knowing she was female, which would make them seem like a bit of a knob lol

It's the "look at me" wokeness I object to.

💯

I don't understand how this came about tbh. I've only worked in 2 offices since e-mail was invented. Both have set styles which cannot be altered.

I don't know how widespread this is I've never come across anyone in my own sector or the other professional sectors I deal with who do this.

If OP's colleague feels the need to justify the company practice of not cluttering up an email sign-off with supernumerary details, he can always cite the case that showed that employees identifiable as female found they had to establish their competence and credibility with many male clients and were less productive as a result.

That's why email addresses ideally should use initials, not full names.

I think plain email signature templates are the best.

Yes, to your name, job title, contact details and working hours (if part-time).

No to fancy fonts and different colours - they’re difficult for some people to read.
No to your qualifications - stop showing off.

No to pronouns - unless your recipient really needs to know them.
No to your religious or political beliefs.

I said it should be personal choice to put them in or not, and can appreciate some people don't want to which is fair enough

It's a political statement. Thus people shouldn't have the right to push their personal political statements on work time when they are representing their companies.

and could potentially alienate clients.

Seriously, how?
(Being genuine)
It wouldn't affect me.
If you didn't want to include them fair enough, but how does anyone else doing it alienate me?
It doesn't.
I'll just keep on doing me.

Saying they can't include them because you don't want them to or agree is exactly the same attitude as anyone saying you have to include your pronouns.

Personal choice on your own emails.

Not personal choice on work emails.

People shouldn’t be expressing their beliefs on gender identity/God/politics in work emails.

Saying she/her is the equivalent of putting ‘I heart Boris’ on an email. It’s a statement of belief.