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Original poster

Employee using pronouns. Help!

363 replies

OfNobody · 01/07/2021 15:20

Hi all,

A friend of mine has just taken on a new recruit and he's just realised that she uses pronouns after her name on her email signature.

He'd love for her not to do that because he's GC himself (and has a very traditional client base) but can he ask her to stop? Is that in itself discrimination?

Would love to advise him but generally, all the work issues I see around this run in the opposite direction (employers asking employees for pronouns).

Any experience of this, or any insight into how he can politely request that she drop the pronouns without ending up on the front cover of The Guardian?

From what he said, she doesn't sound like a massive raging handmaiden. She's just fresh out of uni and obviously thinks this is the way to go.

OP posts:
dworky · 01/07/2021 16:58

What's that smell?

toffeebutterpopcorn · 01/07/2021 16:56

@McDuffy

Interesting to see it coming from the other direction. Let us know how he approaches it! I decline anyone on LinkedIn with a she/her (always women), I get lots of unsolicited or friend-of-a-friend requests as I work for a company that lots of people are interested in.
Me too. It’s always young men and women stating the bleeding obvious too... oddly enough, the people I am LinkedIn with who are tran(sexual in old money) don’t do this.
Etorih · 01/07/2021 16:54

I find it cringy when I see it. It doesn't make a good impression (to me, but I doubt I'm alone). It's like someone signing off with 'God bless'. They are inflicting their views on others.

Totally. Over sharing does not make for good working relationships.

McDuffy · 01/07/2021 16:53

Interesting to see it coming from the other direction. Let us know how he approaches it!
I decline anyone on LinkedIn with a she/her (always women), I get lots of unsolicited or friend-of-a-friend requests as I work for a company that lots of people are interested in.

NotTerfNorCis · 01/07/2021 16:53

I find it cringy when I see it. It doesn't make a good impression (to me, but I doubt I'm alone). It's like someone signing off with 'God bless'. They are inflicting their views on others.

Etorih · 01/07/2021 16:52

It just indicates a belief that it's bad to be accepting of trans people.

No it doesn't indicate that at all. You really don't need to share anything at work at all apart from your ability to do your job. That's it.

merrymouse · 01/07/2021 16:52

[quote yeahbutnaw]@merrymouse

It's not inclusive to force someone to remove pronouns from their signature.

It just indicates a belief that it's bad to be accepting of trans people.

Good god get a grip girl.[/quote]
No, you are wrong.

Insisting on pronouns forces people to declare a gender identity which they may not feel happy to share, or which they may feel is a lie.

Good God get a grip, person whose gender identity/sex/age I will not assume because it is irrelevant to this discussion.

merrymouse · 01/07/2021 16:48

@thirdfiddle

I'd write it off. Similar to wearing a crucifix or something - she's allowed to express her belief. Time enough to challenge it if she makes any steps in the direction of telling everyone else to wear crucifixes.
People don’t usually share their religion in work emails.
yeahbutnaw · 01/07/2021 16:48

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Iggi999 · 01/07/2021 16:47

Stmaryskettle there is no advantage for a woman to declare she is female at work. She will be treated better by those she is emailing if they think she's a man! So I don't see the great problem if someone thinks she was male.
An easier way would be to write (Ms) or (Mr) after your name is you wanted to let them know. That has the added advantage of giving them a title for correspondence.

merrymouse · 01/07/2021 16:46

I worked with a woman I had never met with a unisex name, we only ever used email or IM - it was quite a while before I found out she was female if she had her pronouns listed I would have known straight away how to refer to her when referring to her in her absence

This is really normal. If it comes up in conversation somebody just corrects you. It’s not offensive. Unless her sex had a bearing on her job, it isn’t a problem.

Etorih · 01/07/2021 16:46

I don't think I've ever needed to use someone's pronouns on email at work. Using their names works just fine. And you do generally know the name of the person you're emailing. So absolutely not necessary to bring your whole selves to work. Just bring the part that gets the job done and leave the politics / pronouns at home.

merrymouse · 01/07/2021 16:43

@Orf1abc

Why would he have a problem with this? What harm does it do to anyone?

Stop creating issues where they don't exist. The employee is just as entitled to her inclusive views, as her boss is to his less inclusive views.

It’s not ‘inclusive’ to state pronouns.

It just indicates a belief that it’s good to categorise people by gender.

There are many reasons why others would not want to share this information, including a wish for privacy and concern about endorsing gendered prejudices.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 01/07/2021 16:43

You can’t make everyone do this so that those who need to have it spelled out (for various reasons) what, ‘blend in’? And if you are referring to the person of they aren’t there...

“I had an email from Jamie, she said...”
“Jamie’s a man...”
“Oh, he said...”

My SIL has a foreign name - and it’s actually a boys name. She survives just fine.

In which case why not make people add their religion (or none) or dietary requirements of choice? Allergies? Tea/coffee/biscuit preferences. I can think of a few things that would be rather useful to know about colleagues, clients or suppliers. Choose of pronoun isn’t one of them.

StMarysKettle · 01/07/2021 16:37

@toffeebutterpopcorn

Good point. Even on my roughest days I can’t be mistaken for a man. So why point out the bleeding obvious?
It makes it easier for others to follow suit if they are GNC or non binary if they see others doing it. Or she has a slightly ambiguous name. Or a deep voice. I worked with a woman I had never met with a unisex name, we only ever used email or IM - it was quite a while before I found out she was female if she had her pronouns listed I would have known straight away how to refer to her when referring to her in her absence.
ArabellaScott · 01/07/2021 16:37

FWIW, I would say the same for an employee adding some kind of religious mantra or quote to the end of an email. Not appropriate, not professional, not acceptable.

ArabellaScott · 01/07/2021 16:35

@SuperLoudPoppingAction

I think all new starts should have someone (office manager or administrator or whoever) show them the house style for email signatures to ensure consistency and a professional look. No need to go into the politics of it, I wouldn't have thought.
Yep. Staff need to be professional in communications and not bring politics or ridiculous ideologies to work.

I would consider using pronouns to be potentially harmful to a brand.

I would be issuing guidance on how staff should sign off.

yeahbutnaw · 01/07/2021 16:29

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toffeebutterpopcorn · 01/07/2021 16:26

There’s no such thing as c**. Made up nonsense.

Mymapuddlington · 01/07/2021 16:25

Surely a cis gender female she/her is the norm, people would automatically say she/her. It would only make sense if someone called David was she/her or they/them etc

Beamur · 01/07/2021 16:24

It really is up to the employer and not the employee in this situation.
If the company policy for email signatures is for a certain format then, you take the job, you accept those terms.
Pronouns in emails etc may be common in some fields of employment but I've yet to see it where I work. Although if you want to add them you can.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/07/2021 16:23

And geo

MattDamon · 01/07/2021 16:22

I've worked for some major players and with most you are not allowed to deviate from the template signature. Tell him to send out an email 'reminder' to all employees instructing them to keep their signatures to the company standard.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 01/07/2021 16:22

I think what super and beamur said is probably the way to go

geojellyfish · 01/07/2021 16:21

If your friend feels strongly that this will reflect badly on the company, a brief chat could go along the lines of,

"I know some workplaces encourage sharing pronouns on outgoing emails, and I both understand and respect the good intentions behind you including them on yours. However, some of our clients, rightly or wrongly, will view it as a political statement. As a result, and given the nature of our work, we would rather all employees stick to the signature template to avoid any controversy."