Am I non binary?

No it doesn’t - it means “flangi pangi gibberdi do goooo”

'Well yes, because the very meaning of cis is "not trans".'

That's incorrect.

Cis means that you sex and your internal sense of gender identity are aligned.

It's a popular way of terming things.

Men and non men.
Women and non trans/ 'cis' women.

Why do we need a word for not-trans? Surely the omission of trans is what indicates that you aren’t.

And the meaning of trans is not-cis.

That’s pretty much exactly what binary means though.. Two choices one or the other- on or off, yes or no.

It's not quite the same as a binary. It's more like saying "yes and not yes" than "yes and no" which is a true binary.

No, you’re not non-binary. Mammals are binary sexed beings.

You are gender non-conforming. As are many many women.

👍

nicegerbil

Thanks to you I'm genderfuck today! I was going to accessorize my jumpsuit with some big swinging testicles but I have mislaid them so instead I've teamed a vulva with some jeans and a t-shirt.

What I would say though, is that just because you don't like gender stereotypes doesn't mean you have to outright reject your gender or be non-binary.

If you think about it, saying "I'm female but I don't like pink things so I'm non-binary" could actually reinforce a female gender stereotype that women like pink.

Perhaps the best thing is to be the gender you want to be and model how to be a woman but not conform to those stereotypes, rather than say you simply don't have a gender?

I hate gender stereotypes too, but I'm still happy to be referred to as "she". I'm comfortable in my skin and being a "she", whilst a core part of who I am, doesn't say anything about me in terms of what I wear, how I behave, etc! (For the record, I don't do many stereotypically female things like dresses, high heels, make up etc.)

It's all really complicated and a bit of a minefield but I guess I'm saying that if you like to wear men's clothes that doesn't mean you aren't a woman. But if you do feel non-binary truly then that is fine as well. It's really up to you.

Cis and trans is so binary. Oh, you don’t identify as trans, that means you are cis. One or the other.

I am non-binary on the cis/trans binary being neither cis nor trans.

Ah you are out of date.

The meaning in this context is the strongly felt internal sense of your gender.

This apparently is something the vast majority of people have.

It's got nothing to do with how you dress, what you like to do, what your sex is, stereotypes or anything like that.

Apparently it's formed and felt by 2yo.

So... Easy.

The strange thing is loads of women on MN don't have one. Previous threads on chat etc had scores of women saying that.

The good news is I've read that that simply means that you're so comfy with your gender that you don't even notice it! (Women don't know their own minds).

So relax, you're 'c*s. You don't need to worry your pretty head about it any more.

I would love to be gender free but unfortunately I have a Vagina in a misogynistic world which leads to daily unfair gender stereotypes and expectations forced upon me.

Hmmmm

How about genderfuck?

'Genderfuck is a form of gender expression that seeks to subvert the traditional gender binary or gender roles by mixing traditionally masculine (such as a beard) and traditionally feminine (such as a dress) components. It literally means to "fuck with" or mess with traditional notions of gender expression or gender roles.[1][2][3][4] For some it is their gender identity, for others it is a label for a certain event's clothing or outfit. [5] This may also extend to the belief that the social construct of gender does not exist.'

Note the last line. Does not exist.

At work then. Hi. I'm trans and I identify as genderfuck. How would that land?

Interesting to note that the traditionally masculine thing is a beard (male secondary sexual characteristic), while the feminine example is an item of clothing.

That seems inconsistent to me.

Oooooohhhhhh

Well why not try Xenogender (from Wikki non binery..coined in 2014 by Tumblr user Baaphomett )..is a nonbinary gender identity "that cannot be contained by human understandings of gender; more concerned with crafting other methods of gender categorization and hierarchy such as those relating to animals, plants, or other creatures/things.

It's got a flag and everything.

And the only people worse than women who have concerns

Are old school transsexuals who are having everything fucked up for them. And also have various areas they don't agree.

They get called truscum.

And that's the good guys saying that. Lovely.

So in the end, it's all clearly not at all what it claims to be. A progressive social movement. In fact, it is divisive and worryingly, what's the word. It's just labelling people as good or bad. Irrespective of real life as well.

So.

No one can know a person's gender without asking. A person's gender is what they say and must be respected.

Some women: OK well I've looked at the definitions and according to them I'm agender.

Answer: No you're not. You're 'cis'. And that's that.
Furthermore if you are ??? about self ID into everything then you are literally killing people. A huge violent risk.

Women: ..... ????? Erm. Isn't it pretty much always men who murder and attack etc?

Answer: That's sexist. Those violent thugs are only doing this because they listen to middle aged lefty feminists.

Etc etc.

It's not logical. It is highly impractical. And only certain people are allowed to have a trans identity.

'As that hasn't happened I get lumped in cisgender, which I can't be, because I don't have a gender identity of what it is to be a woman. I literally have absolutely no clue what a gender identifying woman is. None. Nada. Zip. So yes, I am, nothing.'.

In the end this is the whole point.

You have noticed I'm sure that although

Gender should never be assumed, not from a person's name, pronouns, or presentation.

Pronouns must always be learnt remembered and adhered to.

Dead naming is very harmful indeed.

I mean apart from the fact there is no practical way that can work IRL (how this works has never been expanded on, I have asked quite a few to times).

We have pronouns in emails, training the police blah blah.

Contrast this to loads of women complaining for YEARS about
Being called the wrong name. Often a totally wrong name. So losing their identity and personhood entirely.
Eg Ms Jane Jones getting post to Mrs Robert Green.

Being put second on things they have applied for and are paying for and then being told they are not first named so can't change any info etc.

Being TOLD including by orgs like DBS that if they were Ms then MUST have a previous surname as that's a title for divorcees.

And being told it's trivial. Stop making a fuss. It's tradition. It's not important.....

Interesting that.

And with this. The 'rules' don't apply to people like us. Women. Mothers. Older. Outspoken. Lesbians. Grandmothers. Wives. These things aren't for us.

We are again told what to be.. Mrs Robert Green. Cisgender....

In fact most people in the end fall under the trans umbrella. But that doesn't work does it. The needs to be something to be different to.

So when a woman says.. I've listened to your definitions and according to those I am agender, bigender, non binary etc.

Suddenly the rules don't apply and we're TOLD that we are 'cis'. Because that's what we have to be to make it all work.

So men are what men say they are and women are what men say they are. That statement has been around long before all this.

With all due respect OP, you really are old enough to know better.

Man, gender stereotypes really have screwed us over.

And the people who hate them the most, do nothing more radical than … reinforce them.

So you have breasts, a vagina, ovaries and a uterus. But you don’t like the way women present themselves, so instead of just being you - a human - you emulate all the stereotypes of men. Cut your hair short and wear trousers. Maybe spread your legs when sitting on public transport, to infringe on someone else’s space.

Wow. Really subversive.

I really really don't have a clue what non binary means. I'm female, lesbian where male and female clothes, have very short hair. So what? So do many many other women. I'm just a woman.

Gender identity is the unmeasurable and shifting notion of what a person thinks they may feel at any specific moment in time about a fluid and changeable concept that either correlates or denies their innate biological sex or alternatively corresponds with that person's estimation of their opposite sex predicated on their own personal perception of a stereotypical yet ultimately unknowable and reductive abstraction of an assumption of that sex for which they have no frame of reference to even begin to understand.

Do you have a gender identity? Do you reject the gender identity of woman and man, but still have a sense of gender identity that isn't based on those genders? If so, then yes, non-binary.

Wtf does this even mean? How can you have a “sense of gender identity that isn’t based on those genders”? What gender identity would that be? Neuter? Hermaphrodite? Hentai porn character? Alien from the planet Zog? There IS no “gender identity” that isn’t based on sex: it’s literally impossible to “identify” as anything “non-binary” - that’s the whole point. Those “identities” are pure fantasy and fiction, and I think we should start actually saying that for once.

Not to mention the logical impossibility of claiming that you’re “non-binary” just because you’re mixing up different bits of the binary. All you’re doing then is reinforcing the bloody binary, not dismantling it FFS.