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Original poster

CGD is not appealing Maya's judgment! Employment tribunal can proceed

130 replies

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 28/06/2021 19:12

CGD are not appealing the Employment Appeal Tribunal judgment that gender critical beliefs are worthy of respect in a democratic society.

The judgment stands and is a legal precedent.

Next step: employment tribunal to hear the rest of the case.

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1409554171821531136

OP posts:
Original poster
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 29/06/2021 09:07

Just seen this helpful summary from Audrey Ludwig in response to a question about why CDGDev didn't settle but are pursuing this case:

It is legally more complicated. If the evidence shows the manifestation of the belief is likely to cause unlawful harassment of other staff who are also protected, then not necessarily unlawful discrimination to terminate contract. Has to be balanced against Maya's rights.

twitter.com/AudreySuffolk/status/1409763430505066497?s=20

I thought Maya didn't have a colleague with that PC at the time in question?

OP posts:
Original poster
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 29/06/2021 09:00

I just saw that, plus some employee from CGD tweeting about them taking it back to court as the views she holds are not acceptable. twitter.com/seanbartlettdc/status/1409561103068172290?s=21

I note this tedious trope alongside the dollop of ignorance of the different rights in the UK.

I am grateful for that fight at a time when there are forces actively working to make the trans community - one that has led much of the fight for LGBTQ+ visibility and rights – ‘othered’ and live in the shadows. May they be unsuccessful. End thread.

From SB's bio, I strongly suspect that SB is in the US and does not understand how very different the situation is in the UK. I'm disappointed that the text implies that this is yet another person who is promoting the reversioning* of history as to who was responsible for which notable achievements.

archive of tweet thread: archive.is/FoftZ

*I'm sticking with reversioning rather than revision here because I read something recently about demagogues and the alternate universes they offer their followers.

OP posts:
Original poster
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 29/06/2021 08:52

@highame

yourhair just shows that emotion overrides sense. Company should have been on that straight away. In fact they would have known of judgement perhaps yesterday so should have warned their employees, on pain of sacking
Has anyone screens hotted them for Maya and her legal team?
OP posts:
highame · 29/06/2021 08:43

yourhair just shows that emotion overrides sense. Company should have been on that straight away. In fact they would have known of judgement perhaps yesterday so should have warned their employees, on pain of sacking

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/06/2021 08:42

Shouldn't they be being more careful here if they're going to try and argue that they didn't sack Maya for her views/tweets?

Probably, yes.

yourhairiswinterfire · 29/06/2021 08:40

I just saw that, plus some employee from CGD tweeting about them taking it back to court as the views she holds are not acceptable.

Shouldn't they be being more careful here if they're going to try and argue that they didn't sack Maya for her views/tweets?

highame · 29/06/2021 08:39

I suppose they will be able to argue at Tribunal that MF's beliefs had gone beyond reasonable, so they will have to find out what reasonable is. That is usually what the average person would think reasonable. The average person in the UK would think sex is immutable, or am I misunderstanding?

Soontobe60 · 29/06/2021 08:07

[quote EndoplasmicReticulum]According to CGD they are going to continue with tribunal

www.cgdev.org/article/cgd-announces-path-forward-uk-employment-tribunal-case[/quote]
I just saw that, plus some employee from CGD tweeting about them taking it back to court as the views she holds are not acceptable. twitter.com/seanbartlettdc/status/1409561103068172290?s=21

GNCQ · 29/06/2021 07:47

I'm a bit confused about the "protected belief" notion when it comes to TWAW because in the Equality Act ....

"Legally recognised beliefs seem to parallel the approach frequently taken towards religion in equality law, which tends to follow a quasi-protestant model that understands faith largely as a private, personal matter that rarely affects others" (not my words, found it in a blog about MF)

So if protected beliefs are those that rarely affect others, how the hell can TWAW be protected, when the manifestation of this belief so clearly has a major, negative and disruptive impact on women?

I'd like to see that tested in court.

IToldYouIWasCummins · 29/06/2021 07:05

🤣

Everything crossed for Maya 🙏🏻

DeRigueurMortis · 28/06/2021 22:17

@ArabellaScott

Read the judgments. Read them and understand them.

😂😂😂

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2021 22:08

Read the judgments. Read them and understand them.

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 28/06/2021 22:05

Brilliant news! Congratulations Maya.

ArabellaScott · 28/06/2021 22:04

Fantastic news. Well done, Maya.

ArabellaStrange · 28/06/2021 22:03

Fabulous news. Fingers crossed for the decision that will be coming forth regarding Kiera Bell.

GrownUpBeans · 28/06/2021 22:03

Great news

DeRigueurMortis · 28/06/2021 22:00

Thanks DoM for giving so many posters the opportunity to re-post extracts of this important judgment for all the lurkers.

Your contribution to the GC cause is very much appreciated 👏.

Please keep posting 👍.

Majorfluff · 28/06/2021 21:43

Thanks all, now I am clear.

Clymene · 28/06/2021 21:42

Whoop whoop! Well done Maya

HermioneWeasley · 28/06/2021 21:39

Yes @Majorfluff like being a Christian and being an atheist are both protected. It doesn’t mean you have a right to evangelise to people or pray over them, but you can’t suffer unlawful discrimination simply because you hold those views.

I be,lieve the CGD have been very up front about the fact they didn’t renew her contract because of her belief, in which case she’s got them bang to rights for unfair dismissal and unlawful discrimination.

Manderleyagain · 28/06/2021 21:35

@Majorfluff

Am I confused? Does that also mean that TWAW is a protected belief also?
Yes it is. Both beliefs, and lack of belief in both, all protected.
NonnyMouse1337 · 28/06/2021 21:34

@Majorfluff

Am I confused? Does that also mean that TWAW is a protected belief also?
Yes, you can't harass or discriminate against someone for holding such beliefs. Which is entirely reasonable. Lots of people may hold views that we dislike, but they are still entitled to be treated fairly and not be discriminated against in their place of work etc.
Manderleyagain · 28/06/2021 21:34

I am glad that they are continuing with the tribunal, although it will be hard work and stressful for maya. We need some of this to play out in court. I assume only things she did/said while working there will be used as evidence, so Gregor won't come in to it. I will be really interested to see what they argue because its important to known where the courts draw the line with expressing beliefs on your own social media. My personal view is pretty much any lawful speech should be OK if you are not directly representing your employer, but I suspect the courts won't take that view exactly. I want to know what arguments they will weigh up.

Majorfluff · 28/06/2021 21:22

Am I confused? Does that also mean that TWAW is a protected belief also?

EndoplasmicReticulum · 28/06/2021 20:39

According to CGD they are going to continue with tribunal

www.cgdev.org/article/cgd-announces-path-forward-uk-employment-tribunal-case