Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

It always has been. But we used to point and laugh (emotional support ponies on planes! Haha!)

America really has gone properly nuts, hasn't it?

So much of this is about them attempting to shift what's acceptable bit by bit.

Yes, it is.

It does arabella but it is clothed. No joy there for watching naked girls and women.

I thought this particular spa does have a mixed sex area?

So why not have a unisex area. When you’re butt-naked, no one knows your gender surely?

Transgender spa customers have the same rights as everyone else
So (all the other) men have the right to be naked in front of women and to see naked women, in these situations, too?

It is ongoing pushback on all that the women’s liberation movement has achieved in the past century. The patriarchy wants us back in the place it has designated for us. Subjugation.

That is one reason why businesses, governments and laws are pushing these supposedly progressive policies through so quickly when social change in favour of minorities usually takes decades and is kept in balance with the needs of the majority. Another is money presumably.

So much of this is about them attempting to shift what's acceptable bit by bit.
I don't know if anyone remembers the ruling in the US a couple of years ago where the judge said that girls have no right to visual bodily privacy? There have been a few court cases similar (referenced in the link below).
I think that previous posters are right. This isn't just about not wanting to see unexpected penis. It's about male people insisting they have the right to be present in places that women and girls are naked.

www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2019/04/09/do-students-have-a-right-not-to-be-seen-naked-by-someone-of-anatomically-speaking-the-other-sex/

So in order to visit a spa we can submit to patriarchy in the form allowing penis people watch us naked (women as public property) or we can submit to patriarchy in the form of religion and religious men will allow us a single sex space which they’ll respect and defend from all other penis people (because we’ll be the private property of particular men).

Ha cop out.

By the times editorial board.

I'd put money on it being written by a bloke who won't put his money where his mouth is.

Coward.

:In the meantime, customers of public-serving businesses should be prepared to share space with the public, in all our forms, varieties and customs. Antidiscrimination laws stand for the principle that all are welcome, whether we are comfortable or not.'

So mixed sex then?
The issue is 'offence' when a male ambles in to a single sex area? With little girls in?

One more check

'offended'

'This doesn’t solve the issue of where offended people go if they want a group experience in keeping with their religious traditions. It shouldn’t be impossible for that to happen, considering the strong constitutional protections in this country for freedom of religion. Future U.S. Supreme Court rulings might well grant faith-based groups the right to set up spas and other accommodations that are in keeping with their beliefs.'

Where have the sexually abused girls and women who have had dodgy experiences gone?

Seemed concerned about them. But. They've dropped away!

:But no one has an absolute right to feel comfortable all the time. People have a right to use the spa, but that doesn’t include with it a guarantee that they all will feel at ease with everything they see. They might prefer a spa where a certain amount of body covering is required.'

Groovy! Fuck the Korean spa businesses. Women- go elsewhere!

Oh yikes

'The rights of transgender people to act in accordance with their gender identity is fortunately gaining acceptance in many corners'

What is acting in accordance with your gender identity in this context?

Not explained.

'At the same time, that doesn’t make everyone who feels uncomfortable in such scenarios a bigot. There are women who have been through personal experiences such as sexual assault who might find such a situation intimidating. It could go against the convictions and traditions of observant Muslims and Jews, who have a conservative or orthodox interpretation of gender norms and might themselves feel marginalized for their traditionalist beliefs.'

Ok cool. So vagina owners whether child or adult MAY not like it if they have been sexually assaulted (or are an abused child) or are very religious. Every other woman or girl is fine with it. Okayyyy.

[quote OvaHere]The LA Times takes the editorial stance that both exposing your penis to young girls and women and viewing young girls and women whilst they are naked is a moral good for any male that feels like doing it.

www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-07-06/editorial-transgender-spa-customers-have-the-same-rights-as-everyone-else[/quote]
As per the title of the link, surely transgender spa customers would have the same rights as everyone else if everyone was required to use the space reserved for their sex?

That was easy.

The LA Times takes the editorial stance that both exposing your penis to young girls and women and viewing young girls and women whilst they are naked is a moral good for any male that feels like doing it.

www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-07-06/editorial-transgender-spa-customers-have-the-same-rights-as-everyone-else

'I don’t need to explain why I do not want a male in an area considered safe for women and girls'

Which leads onto the point that actually very very few people don't know why. Same as very very few people think women in sport don't try hard enough.

Why they don't say WTF...

Not their problem/ not their 'area' (men)
Doesn't affect me (s fair few women)
A deep down idea that men are more important (both sexes)
Seeing the male perspective only and feeling they must be helped (mainly men probably)

Probably others.

It's bizarre.

I think a lot of ordinary people aren't asked what they think
And others see it as a niche LGBT+ Vs feminist argument

'Let others justify why a women saying no isn't enough.'

It's the norm in many societies though.

Also, we're emotional unreliable witnesses.

So if that's already something felt by society then...

The arguments are so... I can't understand why anyone buys them.

Eg the only reason men beat women in sport is because women aren't trying hard enough.

I mean just fuck off.

I agree

I don’t need to explain why I do not want a male in an area considered safe for women and girls

I just don’t is enough

Seems to be enough for a man to say I feel like a women for so much to change for us real women - once again male fucking entitlement is what so much of this comes down to

Push back. Let your No be No and there's a fucking end to it.

Yesssss. The answer is no.

It's quite true that we are more often than not on the back foot justifying things. But we don't fucking have to. We're half the population and the answer is no.

This is the bottom line. The only line.

Let others justify why a women saying no isn't enough.

They're involuntary though!

It could be something he's thinking about or an adult he saw earlier.

If you assume it's because of the child that says more about how you think.

Etc etc etc

Erections are completely natural and they happen. Get over it.

You would have to question someone who got an erection at the sight of a child.

I think I would have a huge problem getting over that.