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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pushback at Wi Spa in Los Angeles

999 replies

FannyCann · 27/06/2021 11:14

Well it's all kicking off at the spa. An amazing woman behind the desk standing up for women and telling a man where to take his penis. I fear she will lose her job over this but it's a glorious way to go.

twitter.com/stillgray/status/1408997169344909313?s=21

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/07/2021 17:43

@FloralBunting 🏅

IvyTwines2 · 07/07/2021 17:41

I disagree with the conclusion of that New York Post piece, though: in a very insecure profession, right now, it's probably career death for an actress to stand up alone against this ideology. TV and Movie fandoms are obsessed with it, especially at the younger / fantasy / SF end, and the social media pile ons that would accompany any project they got involved in would scare future employers off.

Etorih · 07/07/2021 17:38

FloralBunting absolutely.

theThreeofWeevils · 07/07/2021 17:37

Brava, Floral!
Flowers

FloralBunting · 07/07/2021 17:32

It is always like this. This is why you don't pay any heed to people who appeal to your female socialization and suggest you tone the feminism down.

You're not trying to persuade men that women are whole people with rights, as though you tacitly accept them as the ones who bestow or remove your rights.

You are speaking to other women, giving them the courage to stand up and demand their basic due - as half the human race. This is not a point of argument. This is not something I need to be nice about or I won't get it. This is fundamental.

That's what courage calls to courage means. You're rallying your fellow women to know that they matter, and that their No is absolute, and no man is in a position to disregard or endorse it.

We do not seek the permission of men to be liberated from the many ways they exploit and control us. When push comes to shove, and it always will, you get up as a woman and you take your rightful place in the world.

You'll watch them NAMALT, and encourage compromise with the 'nicer' men, and tell you that you're an angry man hater, every time you centre women with no regard for a man's opinion.

But you know what? They'll do that anyway, whether you feminism is meek or strident, and the firmer you are, the more women will see it's possible and will join you.

Why do you think FWR has been so relentlessly targetted? Because through intense pressure, the women here have held the line that women matter, and every time another woman hears it, it's more effective.

Don't ask for men's permission or endorsement of your fight for women's rights. It's nothing to do with them.

MondayYogurt · 07/07/2021 17:21

Reading all the "lol traumatized" replies here twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1412373600674398210?s=21

I wonder how many of these people would be pleased to receive unsolicited dick pics?

OvaHere · 07/07/2021 16:51

Yes, looking back one wonders if the reason some women, briefly, were allowed to be heard was just because some men lower down the Hollywood pecking order wanted to cut down a big tree to get more space for themselves.

It was rumoured that HW was taken down only when other powerful men decided it was time to take him down. That doesn't change what he did but it suggests women were only allowed to have justice at a time when it benefitted other men.

Etorih · 07/07/2021 16:45

That article pretty much sums it up MondayYoghurt

toffeebutterpopcorn · 07/07/2021 16:44

From the article - “Never again should progressives be confused with real feminists. When they tell you who they are, believe them.”

PurpleHoodie · 07/07/2021 16:05

Delphinium20

Looks like even reporters are minimizing indecent exposure as they put traumatizing in air quotes and their editors put it in the 'social issues' section (apparently crimes against women and children don't deserve the investigations section)

They are not real reporters or journalists.

They are bloggers in a fledgling Internet age.

There are so few REAL journalists left.

IvyTwines2 · 07/07/2021 15:37

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It's awful to see how much of the #Metoo phenomenon was an empty, virtue signalling lie.
Yes, looking back one wonders if the reason some women, briefly, were allowed to be heard was just because some men lower down the Hollywood pecking order wanted to cut down a big tree to get more space for themselves.
Datun · 07/07/2021 15:35

@Ereshkigalangcleg

#MeToo seems a very long way away now, and the backlash is, if anything, worse.

This is what I find most depressing. Shame for Weinstein that he never thought to declare he was a woman, or that others didn't suggest this.

Omg. Why the hell hasn't he?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/07/2021 15:28

It's awful to see how much of the #Metoo phenomenon was an empty, virtue signalling lie.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/07/2021 15:27

#MeToo seems a very long way away now, and the backlash is, if anything, worse.

This is what I find most depressing. Shame for Weinstein that he never thought to declare he was a woman, or that others didn't suggest this.

IvyTwines2 · 07/07/2021 15:25

That LA Times editorial is a new low, and doubly disturbing if this reflects the mindset of the region that now has the biggest influence, through the reach of its TV and cinema, on global culture, and especially on children and young adults. #MeToo seems a very long way away now, and the backlash is, if anything, worse.

PurpleHoodie · 07/07/2021 14:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

PurpleHoodie · 07/07/2021 14:46

Jarnsaxa

I did see one of the ANTIFA posts on twitter that made me giggle.

They were talking about supporting Trans Women Of Colour,nothing wrongwith that of course.

Except rhey'd used the acronym 'TWOC'

That doesn'tmean what they think it means in the UK...

Not so funny was another ANTIFA poster trying to characterise the original woman who complained as an 'aggressive, right wing religious fundamentalist'.

Apparently because s she'd put bible quotes on her twitter in the past.

No mention of the lady being African American for some reason.

This from the same group people who were presumably protesting for BLM just a few weeks ago.

Now fighting for the rights of white men to show their dicks to Little black girls.

TRAs, and Antifa are racist as fuck. We all know this.

They prove it time and time again by their own words and actions.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/07/2021 14:42

It wasn’t a changing room. It was an area of the spa facilities that was designated as being for women and girls.

When both male and mixed sex areas existed.

PurpleHoodie · 07/07/2021 14:38

toffeebutterpopcorn

Ah yes - California. What is it about that part of the world?

Brighton and Hove is a mini-me California.

Yorkshire: Am not sure on a comparison yet. It is political pervert/Rape Central (note all the previous threads showcasing government FOI publicly available information on sex-attack based charges and convictions of politicos/rape zones/lobby groups.

PurpleHoodie · 07/07/2021 14:18

the man got in beside a nine year old girl

Fucking. Hell!

PurpleHoodie · 07/07/2021 14:17

It wasn’t a changing room. It was an area of the spa facilities that was designated as being for women and girls. Nakedness is expected throughout the area. This included a jacuzzi where the man got in beside a nine year old girl

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 07/07/2021 10:38

ScreamingMeMe

A powerful post. Thank you.

I hear you flower and my eyes will never be averted.

May your days be brighter than sunflowers now 🌻

ScreamingMeMe · 07/07/2021 09:54

Some other good comments

"Don't stare at people's junk." The priests told the children they abused to avert their eyes, too. Whole communities and hierarchies averted their eyes. We know exactly what abusers mean when they use this language.

twitter.com/JamesBarry1789/status/1412154364618227721?s=20

“It is very tempting to take the side of the perpetrator. All the perpetrator asks is that the bystander do nothing. He appeals to the universal desire to see, hear, and speak no evil [...]"

twitter.com/DaniBado/status/992406693450518529?s=20

ScreamingMeMe · 07/07/2021 09:51

Good thread (albeit upsetting).

twitter.com/FemmeLoves/status/1412316271698448386?s=20

This is a thread about why telling girls to “avert your eyes” when they see people with penises in the changing room is so wrong. It is a thread about red flags, and seeing no evil and why most people fail child safeguarding at the very first hurdle.

The sexual abuse of children thrives in the dark. Most abused children have multiple people in their life who “half know” what’s going on. Most people I have told as adults said something like “I had my suspicions.” Many people in authority had the chance to intervene and did not

For example, my father lost his teaching job for inappropriate sexual behaviour with teenage girls. He had three daughters at home, the oldest of which was a teenager. No investigation of his home life was done, he was allowed to retire quietly.

All a child abuser asks is that you politely look the other way. See no evil. Don’t cause any waves. Weesht. Just mind your business, wash your hands of it like Pontius Pilate. After all, it’s only suspicion. He’s harmless. Sure he does loads for the community, avert your eyes.

An abused child cries out to be heard, is desperate to be heard, but the things she has to tell you are horrific. An abused child demands action of you, action which may result in the fracturing of your family and your community. Easier to avert your eyes. See no evil.

I can feel it in me now, still, that desperate need to be heard, seen, believed. The loneliness of not being believed. The absolute betrayal of the adults in my life who should have protected me, and instead, protected the men abusing me. They averted their eyes.

I didn’t need to “tell” what was happening to me. Everybody knew. Instead of taking action, I was labelled a bad kid, a “terrible teenager,” because sexual abuse caused hypersexuality, and led to me seeking out situations in which I could be reabused. I was shamed for their sin.

I just accepted it – ok, I’m the bad guy. I’m a slut, I’m responsible, as a young teenager, for adult men wanting to fuck me. I didn’t have the language or understanding to explain any of it, and even if I had, I would have been blamed instead of helped. I just needed to be seen.

But nobody saw me, they just saw this terrible teenager, this slut, this lost girl who put herself in harm's way, who climbed out of her window and fucked strangers and got falling down drunk and didn't care what happened to her. Nobody really looked beyond that. Avert your eyes.

Averting your eyes is loaded language for abuse victims in another way, though. There’s a defence mechanism called dissociation which involves essentially averting your eyes from your own experience. I went away in my head.

I can remember very little of what I actually did not just when I was being abused, but of all the sex I have ever had with men as an adult. I just went away in my head. I have fractured, broken images, but mostly I averted my eyes, Elvis has left the building.

Victims’ tendency to blame ourselves for what happened is another way to avert our eyes. We can’t look squarely at a person who was supposed to protect us, and accept that they abused us instead. So I went back and forth between the poles of a Hobson’s choice.

My father used to make it feel like the sun was coming out. He sat me on his knee and sat me on his workbench and threw me in the air. I loved him. If he was a bad man, then one of the only bright spots in my childhood wasn’t real, and I had lived without love.

Easier to avert my eyes from evil, literally, to see no evil. Easier to take the shame on myself. Easier to conclude that it was me who was bad, that I deserved it. But if you see no evil, you take that evil on yourself, and live without love either way.

This aversion of the gaze is why abuse victims’ accounts of what happened to them may sound deceptive, even to professional lie detectors. Dissociation, guilt and shame conspire to make truthful narratives sound like lies, full of holes.

It is also why victims so often feel so desperate to speak, to tell the truth about what happened to them, and so desperate to be heard, to be believed. I used to feel like I was in a crowded room, screaming, but everybody just looked the other way.

The first rule of child safeguarding is that if you see a red flag, you have a duty, as an adult, to take action on it. A penis in a women’s changing room is the red flag equivalent of the Kremlin on the anniversary of Lenin’s death.

If you are swinging your dick in the women's changing room, you are not dysphoric. I am married to somebody who lives with dysphoria. If you're dysphoric, you want to hide. This is not a case of a trans person just wanting to get changed. Make no mistake, this is a pervert.

It is already flashing, which is a sexual offence. The men and women saying, without a hint of irony, “avert your eyes” are directly enabling sexual abuse. They are giving a free pass to flashers. They are emboldening perverts. They are feckless, thoughtless cowards.

They are averting their eyes, they are seeing no evil. They are excusing predators and perverts with whatever excuse seems most fitting to them. And they are encouraging others to do the same. I hope they are proud of themselves.

It couldn’t be me. I swore, before I had children, that little people would be safer around me. That I would see red flags and act on them, that I would not avert my eyes, not from what happened to me, and not from adults around me.

I am here, looking the truth in the face, and the truth is that defending flashers, perverts and molesters by saying “it’s a woman’s penis,” and doing it in public, is the exact same energy as moving paedophile priests to different parishes.

It is the exact same energy as failing to investigate the home life of a teacher who has teenage daughters, and has lost his job for interfering with teenage girls at school. It is gaslighting, it is covering up for child abuse. It is a cowardly, polite kind of evil

I will leave you with this. I have done a lot of reading about molestation and grooming, trying to understand what happened to me, and learning how to spot red flags, how to protect children. Of all that reading, one phrase stuck with me.

It was from a prolific abuser of children. He said that even if he didn’t actually get to abuse a child that he was grooming, he would “get her ready for the next guy.” Telling a child just to “avert your eyes” is getting her ready for the next guy.

It is breaking down her boundaries. It is telling her to ignore her feelings and her gut. It is gaslighting her. Child molesters are pure evil and fairly rare, but the kind of craven coward who covers for child molesters and blames the victim are ten a penny.

If you say and do these things, you should know what you are. You are Pontious Pilate. You are seeing no evil. You are looking the other way and allowing the sexual abuse of children on your watch, for woke points. I despise you.