Tokyo Olympics Canadian Women’s football team fielding a Transman

I can't think of any sport where a born woman would be able to qualify as an Olympic Athlete if they are a transman.

A born woman who for all other puposes says they are trans will still want to be considered a woman as that's the only chance they have of being selected.

A born man who says they are trans gain a massive advantage to be considered a woman in all areas and their only chance of being selected as an Olympian is to be apply as a woman.

Both parties, imo, are dishonest. The transwomen are blatantly cheating by, apart from anything else, taking drugs. The transmen are cheating if they are also taking drugs. If they are not taking drugs they are being dishonest because they are claiming to be men but then participating in womens sport - how is this not triggering for them? A non binary person is just attention seeking and should be put in the team of their born sex and get on with it.

Whatever, gender identity this athlete has, they obviously know that they have a female body and therefore are continuing playing in the female category. A similar situation is happening in Japan, where a player in the women's international team has come out as a transman. They obviously believe that they are a man by gender identity but also that they have a female body, as they are continuing to play in female teams.

So Quinn is inadvertently admitting that it is about gender stereotypes

I do find it confusing that non-binary is included in 'T'. Non-binary seems to be about rejecting gender stereotypes while mtf and ftm is about embracing them. The only difference I can see between GC and non-binary is when non-binary includes altering the body eg breast binding.

I've read the article twice and I'm still not sure what's being said.
Gender non conforming female doesn't conform to gender. And plays footy. You'd think Quinn would be gender critical but there you go...

I have a dull hope that non-binary might a way forward for expanding the expectations of being a man or woman.
If the kids need a label to see them through, let them - eventually will young women having short hair and wearing grey joggers be commonplace and not a big event which involves all the angst & navel gazing? They're not listening to middle aged women (like me) saying "you can do this anyway - nobody's binary" so let them find their own way.

Laurel Hubbard however is an entirely different matter & yes, shows the absurdity and inconsistency of the Olympic Committee.

"Break your heart" seems a rather OTT reaction to the inane wittering of one extremely privileged person.

Ok

“Most people, unless they're non-binary, have a gender identity of male or female”

I made a complaint to the BBC that this is untrue. Got a word salad response and have re-complained. Not holding my breath....

"Break your heart" seems a rather OTT reaction to the inane wittering of one extremely privileged person.

Why does "it break your heart"?

Because there’s no reason why Quinn should have to identify as non-female in order to not perform femininity. Quinn could not be feminine and be happily female.

It's complete and utter nonsense to say Quinn needs to identify out of being female in order to be comfortable with not performing femininity.

I agree. However Quinn seems to think differently and I see this as a huge problem.

It breaks my heart that Quinn feels the need to identify out of being female in order to be comfortable with not performing feminity. But I understand why. I hope Quinn is happy

Why does "it break your heart"?

It's complete and utter nonsense to say Quinn needs to identify out of being female in order to be comfortable with not performing femininty.

It's just a platitudinous word salad. It's just "me, me, me" - look at me I'm so special"

I think this is a good example of how trans inclusion should work.

I wanted to live my authentic self, dress the way I wanted to, present the way I wanted to, and that wasn't always seen as positive, so that was really hard to digest.

Isn’t this the experience of many many women, throughout history? It’s certainly my experience.

But you know what? I stepped up and live a feminist life, challenging sex stereotypes all the time. Not pretending I can “identify “ out of them.

As I pointed out in another thread, of all the transgender athletes who are going to possibly going to compete in the Olympics, all the transmen (born female) are going to compete in the women's category, and all the transwomen (born male) are also going to compete in the women's category.

I can't actually make out what Quinn is telling us. The article says they have come out as transgender- is Quinn now a man or non- binary?

Quinn looks like a younger, slightly more feminine Meg Rapinoe. If doesn't "see people like yourself in the media or even around you or in your profession" is taken literally Quinn should have gone to Specsavers and should never get a linesperson role.

'The 25-year-old remains eligible to compete in women's sport despite identifying as transgender because gender identity differs from a person's sex - their physical biology.' This utterly contradicts every reason we are told 'proves' Hubbard is eligible to compete in the women's weightlifting.

Exactly. It’s the hypocrisy that’s pissing me off.

I still don’t understand how using the ‘wrong’ pronouns or a ‘dead name’ is actual violence (TM), yet playing on a team made up of your biological sex, despite believing you aren’t part of that category, is fine? I have no problem with Quinn playing in terms of Quinn’s physicality, I’m just struggling to see how mentally Quinn can square it

“Most people, unless they're non-binary, have a gender identity of male or female”

Yes, yes - of course! All us silly women totally identify with all the stereotypes about women 🙄

Why do so many people in N America in particular seem to think that you need to label yourself? Did the 1970s and 80s pass them by? To see women willingly choosing to be defined by stereotypes is sad - and totally regressive.

The ‘logic’ of all this regarding sport is non-existent. Things should be divided by sex - simple.

There's nothing wrong with a women's team fielding a woman who tells people she's a blerk.

A person can have the oddest ideas, but still be good at footy. I mean- look at David Icke!

'The 25-year-old remains eligible to compete in women's sport despite identifying as transgender because gender identity differs from a person's sex - their physical biology.' This utterly contradicts every reason we are told 'proves' Hubbard is eligible to compete in the women's weightlifting.

A female footballer not adhering to feminine stereotypes is surely the biggest non-story of the decade?

Haha! Purgatory... Good point! Saying, as the article does, that "trans people were banned or barred" is pretty disingenuous. People who were cheating by being men in the women's category were banned. But women who take testosterone are still banned.

I hope Quin feels happier now they get to say they are not a woman or what have you but their "not being a women" in the way they think they are doesn't effect their ability to be involved in women's sport or anything really. Just noone is going to "make" them wear a dress or something, and everyone gets to use shitty grammar when trying to talk about them. Guess what? Adult women can decide what to wear and how to have their hair and everything all by themselves already. It doesn't require special exemption.

Yes true.

Is trans about internal gender ID?
If a person hasn't told people they have s trans identity. If they haven't changed their appearance. This seems to say they are not trans.

But they are. Gender identity is different to gender presentation.

Many trans people say they always felt that way.

Jenner was trans when they competed surely?

What was not allowed was a very large number of substances that could enhance performance, including testosterone for both sexes.

What was not allowed was competing in the sex category that you weren't.

There was nothing stopping female people with a stereotypically male hairstyle and preference in clothes from competing.

There was nothing to stop male people with a stereotypically female appearance style competing, well in the rules anyway. In practice the old toxic masculinity is a real problem. Men need to sort that out tbh.