GC protected belief and use of cis

why yes. It's the patriarchy/capitalism. That needs to change....

NiceGerbil,

I take your point.

However, if we take racism (or catcalling that somebody else brought up): it is the system of oppression that needs to change (in your case, having the bus wait for you will not solve everything, but it would be an improvement, wouldn't it?).

I personally don't think it's harrassment and I think you'd be hard pushed to argue it with your employer.

Even if you support this language. They are not including those who do not identify as trans or cis so surely that's a problem.

The issues with the new 'inclusive' approach is that it's so full of holes and so complicated. That it becomes incredibly difficult, impossible even at times, to say the thing you want to say.

guidance at work that specified "cis and trans women", it would not be harassment.

It might not be intentional harassment, but it would be imposition of a belief system.

If a natal female can self identify as ‘trans femme’, then ‘Cis’ just implies acceptance of gender ideology/queer theory.

And also just thought.

Comfortable in your own skin

People who have been subject to racism, up to and including the most horrific oppression. Because of their skin.

My friend who is black has been growing her hair and she says she has to fight to do it because she has a deeply embedded idea that for black women longer hair which is not straightened etc is somehow wrong, a bad thing.

I have no doubt that there are people who have hated their skin colour due to what it meant in their lives, and the lives of their loved ones.

Any thoughts on that?

My final point and this is more personal.

Is that I have a congenital defect which impairs me physically. Thankfully I can do daily stuff ok. However my whole life I've never been able to take part in any sports, gym classes, ride a bike, or move fast if I need to.

I have spent long stints in hospital during secondary school with plenty of pain and recovery etc.

The (now less popular) born in the wrong body idea. And the 'comfortable in your own skin' comment just now I think can land quite heavily to people with disabilities.

I was never comfy with it. How could I be? It set me apart, I couldn't join in, even stuff like catching a bus people I would be with would run off and I'd be left behind.

Then the OPs of course.

Coming to terms with this for me was a very very long process and it did affect me very badly from about 9 to 30 maybe. I took massive risks. I felt I was on limited time.

In my head I can run and jump. And dance normally. I wonder what it's like. I would love to know that.

Loads of people in that sort of position.

Not sure if you have any thoughts on how to phrase things to include those who do not identify either way.

I do not have a trans identity nor a cis one.

That kind of means that anything using these terms I should not consider relevant to me.

'Are you uncomfortable in your own skin?'

Well, I was very uncomfortable with what my skin, my body, my looks meant around how I was treated.

I felt terribly confused and angry about this. I didn't understand why other people did that, I felt at odds with it all, I just couldn't understand what I was missing.

And yes. Untold numbers of women and girls feel uncomfortable in their own skin. High rates of eating disorders, the people who resort to dangerous products that they think will change their body or their skin colour, for example.

[quote Leafstamp]I agree with PP who said the rules would broadly follow those for using the wrong pronoun, ie a mistake once or twice is ok but repeatedly and intentionally calling someone cis who has asked not be is likely to be harassment, ditto repeatedly and intentionally referring to someone by the wrong name or pronoun.

Here’s a useful article:

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/06/26/you-say-objective-i-say-subjective-what-is-the-legal-test-a-blog-about-harassment-and-protected-beliefs/[/quote]
I can see that - don't be rude. Nevertheless, if there was, say, guidance at work that specified "cis and trans women", it would not be harassment.

Hated being catcalled, but not being a girl

I am not running, but I am comfortable out in the dark, always have been

I can assure you, I am no longer earning less than my male counterparts

I would not move to Saudi Arabia

Are you uncomfortable in your own skin? I am not. I would not want to be different, as much as I'd like men (and the many women propping up the patriarchy) to behave differently.

I don't know when the term 'cis' started being used, but I can see it being less of a problem when trans used to mean some-one who was unhappy with or had changed their body. 'Cis' then did mean 'not trans' , whereas now it doesn't.

I agree with PP who said the rules would broadly follow those for using the wrong pronoun, ie a mistake once or twice is ok but repeatedly and intentionally calling someone cis who has asked not be is likely to be harassment, ditto repeatedly and intentionally referring to someone by the wrong name or pronoun.

Here’s a useful article:

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/06/26/you-say-objective-i-say-subjective-what-is-the-legal-test-a-blog-about-harassment-and-protected-beliefs/

what is handedness?

Handedness is chiral. Enantiomer not diastereoisomer.

"cis" means "on the same side as"

How is it relevant to male and female people?

But we are going very far away from the OP - the question was whether the use of "cis" was harassment. I don't think there's a legal basis for that at all.

Obviously, as with other forms of harassment it would depend on the particular situation.

It feels "right" like writing with my right hand feels "right". I assume that's the same for a transwoman.

However plenty of women don’t feel like this while agreeing that they are female in the same way that they agree that their blood type is A positive.

I wouldn’t have the foggiest idea what you meant about ‘feeling right’ about being a woman. It would be like feeling ‘right’ about having a liver.

I feel comfortable as a woman

in what way?

do you feel comfortable being catcalled for example?

do you feel comfortable not going out for runs after dark?

do you feel comfortable earning less than your male counterparts?

If you lived in Saudi would you feel comfortable not being allowed to drive?

what is it about being a woman that makes you so incredibly comfortable ?

what is handedness? I feel comfortable as a woman. It feels "right" like writing with my right hand feels "right". I assume that's the same for a transwoman.

But we are going very far away from the OP - the question was whether the use of "cis" was harassment. I don't think there's a legal basis for that at all.

No, Bernard is right

I may have that embroidered on my handkerchiefs

and yep, this

100 years ago you would have been identifying with the idea that women shouldn’t go to university

what do you think gender identity is @CatherinaJTV ? what do you think trans people are identifying with?

Here you go, the Oxford definition as provided by the first thing that comes up. It's for those whose "gender corresponds with their birth sex"
It's effectively glueing gender to sex.
Maybe you don't agree with this definition, but it's how huge numbers of people are using it. If you want to identify with that, I have no problem with that but it's deeply problematic that so many of us are being labelled with a word that we find incredibly sexist and being called bigots when we object to it.

"cis" means nothing like that. You're making stuff up here.

No, Bernard is right.

Gender is social and cultural expectations related men and women. Therefore if you are ‘Cis’ you are putting yourself in the femininity gender box.

100 years ago you would have been identifying with the idea that women shouldn’t go to university.

"cis" means "on the same side as" -how would that even refer to sex - same side of what?

It is or it isn’t.
You are or you aren’t.
Extra virgin olive oil (and people) is ‘extra’ in what sense?

It’s just a way to say ‘we are all men/women (ie the same), but some are trans and some are c*’. Yet we get gip for calling a woman a woman, but read newspaper reports which purposely refer to ‘she/he’ and ‘woman/man’ (when they are trans) then I don’t know what the hell is going on linguistically (well I do).