Is it ok to deceive a sexual partner about your biological sex?

I personally care less about knowing someone's name than about knowing whether or not I'm going to be encountering a penis or vagina.

I mean, it's sex. It's all about genitals when it's a hook up. Stonewall's position is mad.

But people have sex without even knowing their partner's name, without finding anything out about each other - why would this be any different ?

It is not something that I would feel comfortable with, but some people do enjoy anonymous sex. I believe that even those people deserve to be able to consent to having sex that is safe and within their boundaries. And if that means that a person who has presented themselves as the opposite sex visually needs to clarify that they have a penis or vagina or a neo-vagina/penis, they should out of respect for the other person.

Because that person is using the age old visual cues to identify their prospective sex partner unless they are in a situation that makes it clear to expect the unexpected.

There really does seem to be quite a bit of boundary crossing being allowed.

I agree with you, but expecting this particular standard to be upheld is a bit like being judgemental of people who wake up next to a stranger after a ONS.

No. Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic. That's why it's different from eg marital status.

Deceive is a tricky term.

Not really.
In terms of the law, it may be that it's only an offence if there was proof of deliberate intent - a 'sin of commission', if you will. From the POV of this thread, about the ethics, a 'sin of omission' - not informing the other person of something that may well matter greatly to them and which they may be unaware of is also reprehensible.

Deception of ones sex is not ok. Likewise deception of marital status/HIV status/contraception etc. It is tricking someone into doing something most intimate that they can't consent to.

I agree with you, but expecting this particular standard to be upheld is a bit like being judgemental of people who wake up next to a stranger after a ONS.

Of course it's not okay.

Is this stemming from the idea that biological sex isn't important? Because of course it bloody well is.

I've seen quite a lot of people say but if you were attracted to their face, personality, etc, then what do their genitals matter?

It's all kinds of wrong, and a complete denial of both reality and sexual orientation.

What kind of motivation is there to try and make this acceptable? Who on earth is going to benefit from having sex with someone who would never have done it had they known?

No it's not ok.

It's also not ok to beat someone up (different if it's self defence), but no, it is never ok and those who lie about their biological sex to a potential sexual partner should expect consequences. A violent attack and subsequent injuries is not the consequences I would expect.

Is it ok to deceive a sexual partner about your biological sex?

Hmm. Deceive is a tricky term. That said, I think that if you are going to engage in some kind of sexual act with another person you owe them honesty.

Deception of a sexual partner is never okay.

It’s absolutely wrong to deceive a potential partner about one’s sex. Sex by deception is a crime.

Absolutely not ok, I was quite shocked on another thread someone linked to a Twitter poll, the majority said it was rape by deception, but some of the comments underneath really chilled me, it's made me very scared for my DD18 who is venturing out into the world and what kind of situations she could find herself in. So many people dais they shouldn't have to tell and some were very arrogant about it. The entitlement was unbelievable really.

No it’s not

And a female was sentenced for 6 or 8years for doing exactly that to another female.

No. It is not acceptable at all.

Seems they have trained the police and judiciary that rape by deception is already legal.
Judge Knott might even comment several times on how very attractive the male was and that the lesbian should have known better than to expect no cock and balls on her partner.

Consent needs to be informed and freely and enthusiastically given.

If someone chooses to withhold information because they think being honest might mean the other person declines sex, then they are knowingly choosing to remove someone's ability to consent.

Nobody is entitled to sex. It's as simple as that.

Wouldn't you notice when they got naked?

If the standard of surgery is high enough that someone wouldn't notice or could explain it away as having had an injury repaired or something. I think it's necessary to mention if there is a chance of pregnancy resulting from the encounter no matter how slight.

Other than that I don't know. I suppose it would be horrible to have been kissing somebody and only later find out they were the opposite sex if you're not bisexual. I think? I am bisexual and I don't think I'd find it a huge deal depending on the reason not to say anything! But can see it would be very upsetting to others. Is it comparable to tricking a vegetarian into eating meat? For me, it feels more on the level of this person told me they were single but I later found out they're married, I have a strong moral code against sleeping with married people and now feel disgusted.

It's never ok to decieve anyone in that situation.

It's not something that I or anybody I know would do, apart from anything It's bloody dangerous but also so wrong to put an unsuspecting person in that situation.
It's never going to end well.

Hardly does the Trans cause much good!

This is where the two positions jut up against each other the hardest.
If you believe that trans people are trans, and that man/woman still refer to sex categories, someone not disclosing their sex is a deception.
If you believe that man/woman refer to how someone feels about themselves, then there is no deception because women can have a penis and men can have vulva, and if you're attracted to someone then their biology doesn't matter. And not wanting to have sex with someone with a penis is just a preference.

I would argue that the overwhelming majority of people fall into the first category, no matter how much they go along with TWAW/TMAM, and tell others that they just need to 'be kind'.

If you are an undercover police officer sleeping with activists who would never consent to a sexual relationship with you if they knew who / what you are.

It’s often said that men are less good than women at clocking whether someone is biological male if they present as female. Women generally tell quickly because bluntly being smaller & physically weaker, we need to spot potential danger earlier. Men on the other hand are more likely at least initially to go by presentation ie that person has long hair, boobs, heels & a skirt so must be a woman

Clarity about what kind of sex you're having, STD's and contraception are all essential parts of full consent.

I think it's important — I don't want a full sexual history necessarily, but I would always ask a few questions. I donate blood, so want to be able to answer the screening questions truthfully and accurately!

In the case of a person being trans, I think they should tell you. Not necessarily the minute you meet them, but before you do anything intimate. And surely it's safer for them as well? Better to be rejected earlier than either be rejected when the other person notices and they're cross about it, or after and they feel deceived into sex.

No, of course not.

What on earth?

Of course you shouldn’t deceive someone like that.

But of course also you shouldn’t attack someone who does, unless you’re acting in self-defence. Just walk away.