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Original poster

Thankyou Laurel Hubbard

142 replies

ferretface · 24/06/2021 16:38

I am active on a sports related site where there is currently a lively debate on trans inclusion in sport thanks to Ms. Hubbard and the IOC rules which allow her participation.

I think it's the first time I've felt safe to put my views on the importance of sex based categories in sports to my actual name (the site is largely full of reasonable and respectful people, even if there is a lively debate). Even more hearteningly I'm watching the scales drop from some people's eyes as the debate progresses. Once you see the problem, you can't unsee it.

So thankyou, Laurel Hubbard. Just sorry that the Olympic dreams of a young woman in her 20s had to be dashed to give you your spot and give this issue the visibility that will lead to change.

OP posts:
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Original poster
ferretface · 24/06/2021 18:36

Is anyone aware of any other transwomen qualifiers for this year's Olympics? I guess there's no obligation to disclose trans status so whether it gets detected is basically dependent on how well you pass? Passing having little to do with any performance advantages you might obtain by virtue of having been born male.

OP posts:
PerditaCambellBlack · 24/06/2021 18:35

@nauticant

Weren't people saying here years ago that the next big leap in awareness would be sport rather than anything else, for the simple reason that men would sit up, pay attention, and then start saying "hang on, that doesn't look fair to me".
Quite!
gamerchick · 24/06/2021 18:32

You have to refresh the page after posting a picture

BlackeyedSusan · 24/06/2021 18:28

oh it does that all the time umbel.

CandyLeBonBon · 24/06/2021 18:26

I'm so fucked off with this shit

GrimDamnFanjo · 24/06/2021 18:24

The real problem is that NZ officials can just shrug their shoulders and say they are only following IOC rules...

umbel · 24/06/2021 18:23
Confused
umbel · 24/06/2021 18:23

Well that didn’t work!

Thankyou Laurel Hubbard
umbel · 24/06/2021 18:21

Saw a really helpful visual of the testosterone level question, which I will attempt to share here:

Thankyou Laurel Hubbard
McDuffy · 24/06/2021 18:20

@IHaveBrilloHair

Actually, if its ok to ask, has Laurel had surgery or does Laurel still have a penis?

Either way, I'm not in favour of this at all, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere.

You can see evidence on the image going around Sad
AngelicInnocent · 24/06/2021 18:20

Is there a TW competing in BMX for USA too? I'm sure I remember reading that.

Original poster
ferretface · 24/06/2021 18:19

There's never been an Olympic medallist in weightlifting over 40 and very very few in their 30s irrespective of sex. Its a young person's sport. Winners are overwelmingly under 30. Laurel being 7th in the world at 43 is a truly unique achievement which I hope gets explored by commentators.

OP posts:
IHaveBrilloHair · 24/06/2021 18:15

Actually, if its ok to ask, has Laurel had surgery or does Laurel still have a penis?

Either way, I'm not in favour of this at all, but I don't think I've seen it mentioned anywhere.

EndoplasmicReticulum · 24/06/2021 18:15

It doesn't matter if Laurel gets a medal or not. Given advanced age and past injury it's possible they won't. Nini still loses her place on the team either way

BlackeyedSusan · 24/06/2021 18:14

I am glad that it has become more mainstream to be able to talk about this.

Redcrayons · 24/06/2021 18:11

Not sure it’s time to pop the champagne just yet.

Hubbard is 7th in world, so likely not to medal? Which would ‘prove’ there’s no advantage and women should just STFU.

(Facts from Wiki, I don’t follow the sport so apologies if that’s not right)

McDuffy · 24/06/2021 18:06

@Babdoc

This needs stamped on hard and fast. Because if NewZealand get away with it, the only way for any country to have a hope of beating them is to get rid of their female athletes too, and replace them all with male bodied transgender ones. Women’s sport would be history.
I was chatting to my DH about this last night... We agreed that it needs to be stopped before all other countries join in (I know Iran and China are already on it) and then it becomes too difficult to undo all the policies.
WarOnWoman · 24/06/2021 18:03

@Babdoc

This needs stamped on hard and fast. Because if NewZealand get away with it, the only way for any country to have a hope of beating them is to get rid of their female athletes too, and replace them all with male bodied transgender ones. Women’s sport would be history.

I'm pretty sure that the Iranian women's football team have a few TW.

Babdoc · 24/06/2021 17:54

This needs stamped on hard and fast. Because if NewZealand get away with it, the only way for any country to have a hope of beating them is to get rid of their female athletes too, and replace them all with male bodied transgender ones. Women’s sport would be history.

McDuffy · 24/06/2021 17:53

@WinterIsGone

It's obviously a popular topic. Grin What was the deletion message?
It's back!

Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4237143-Laurel-Hubbard-to-go-to-Tokyo

Mumoftwoinprimary · 24/06/2021 17:47

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

Apologies if this has already been covered somewhere else but could someone explain the testosterone rules to me?
It’s actually really hard to find out for sure as a lot of the articles are saying “below the allowed range” for Laurel Hubbard rather than give an actual number. (Funny that!) But here goes:-

Female “normal range” - 0.2 - 2 nanomoles per litre.
Male “normal range” - 9 - 32 nanomoles per litre.

Trans women need to be under 10 nanomoles per litre.

Some sources are saying the 10 has been reduced to 5 but others are saying that this was proposed but rejected by the IOC.

So - if 5 is correct - then trans women Can have testosterone about 5 times that of an average woman and about a quarter of that of an average woman.

If 10 is correct then it is 10 times that of an average woman and half that of an average man. And a level of testosterone that is within normal ranges for men. (And 5 times the top of the normal range for women.)

So - transwomen have male bone density, male height, male muscle development and closer to male than female testosterone.

Laurel Hubbard does have a pony tail though so that’s ok.

The name we all need to be saying though is Kuinini Manumua. The Tongan weightlifter who lost her space as a result. This is a picture of her. mobile.twitter.com/FondOfBeetles/status/1406992665644830725

She is known as Nini. We should all remember Nini.

Ihopeyourcakeisshit · 24/06/2021 17:46

Yes I'm well aware of the physical differences babdoc.
If there is some kind of rule regarding testosterone levels, I wanted that explaining.

Sensateria · 24/06/2021 17:44

This is the first time I’ve felt ok to put my views (and this picture) openly on my Facebook - and I’ve had nothing but positive comments on the post.

I think a huge amount of people have a particular mental image of trans women, and they don’t look like this. I’m glad this is out in the open now. They say a picture is worth a thousand words…

Thankyou Laurel Hubbard
WinterIsGone · 24/06/2021 17:42

It's obviously a popular topic. Grin What was the deletion message?

McDuffy · 24/06/2021 17:37

@WinterIsGone

The main thread has gone?! Isn't this the main thread? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4277568-Laurel-Hubbard-is-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-women-s-sports

Disappointing it wasn't the idea of women's safety in prisons, refuges and medical settings that triggered a discussion instead of losing sport places and medals.
So true.

No, the other main one BlushGrin I posted twice on it this morning and it has disappeared, had about 700 posts.