Joan of Arc was trans????

Oh I wondered how long before the insults began.

Whichever school is running this utter anti-historical trash should be ashamed of themselves. If you're a parent OP complain. It is utter bullshit. So totally anti-historical.

Yes and as I have repeatedly said its completely ridiculous!

This isn't a discussion about whether trans people existed in history. This is about stupid stupid attempts to muddy the water and suggest that because a famous woman in history (one of very few of course) had short hair, wore armour and practical men's clothes she was actually a man.

Love it people edit a quote to make it completely one sided

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@Imasoulman I think it's pretty darn clear from her own words that she didn't in any way claim to be man and in fact specifically referenced her womanhood.

Never mind that it is absurd to try to apply modern ideas onto historical figures - it is a different culture, different society, different norms, different level of understanding of the world and science.... [/quote]
Actually, your levels of 'science' are probably on a par... it was mostly magical thinking back then too

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@Imasoulman I think it's pretty darn clear from her own words that she didn't in any way claim to be man and in fact specifically referenced her womanhood.

Never mind that it is absurd to try to apply modern ideas onto historical figures - it is a different culture, different society, different norms, different level of understanding of the world and science.... [/quote]

I am not suggesting for one moment that she was Trans.

I have already said its absurd and she should be left alone.

Its absurd to think that trans people did not exist though.

She was illiterate, so these words of hers are actually what someone else has recorded.

Unfortunately we will never know one way or the other.

What utter tosh. She was a biological woman, and she said she was a woman. How is that “not knowing”? Hey maybe it’s because she’s a woman so we can’t take her word for it

Regarding James Barry, the same thought applies about trying to place modern ideas onto historical figures. None of us can possibly know what her motivation was. If she was born now, she might have been totally happy to be an out lesbian in a same sex marriage, working as a doctor. Or she might have been one of the many variants of transgender. It is impossible to say.

I do think we can't know about ID of historical figures. We don't know for certain if certain women who 'lived as men' identified as men or did it because they, quite understandably, didn't want to live with the limitations of being a woman and wanted to see the world, have a demanding job, join the army etc. Unless we have it recorded in a reliable source that such a person believed themselves to be male, we shouldn't impose upon that,

Similarly with men who may have lived as women in the past - maybe they identified as female, or maybe they were gay and found living as a woman allowed them to be with the man or men they loved?

@GoingGently forget Branwell being drunk (v funny by the by!) I am beginning to think some of the people who promote this are either; drunk, on hallucinogenic drugs or living in an alternative dimension
Certainly an alternative recreated history

@Imasoulman I think it's pretty darn clear from her own words that she didn't in any way claim to be man and in fact specifically referenced her womanhood.

Never mind that it is absurd to try to apply modern ideas onto historical figures - it is a different culture, different society, different norms, different level of understanding of the world and science....

Pics or it didn’t happen.

Yes I accept that, I didn't make my point very well.

Unfortunately we will never know one way or the other.
I'm sure there have been Trans people present throughout history.

This is ridiculous though, pointless and unnecessary.
Just leave her be

Also... is Princess Ann trans? She is a military leader in uniform too...! The queen??!!

I am so sick if this whole "trans" thing! You cannot change sex. It is a biological impossibility. How on earth the world has been convinced you can astounds me. You can pretend to be the opposite sex, that's fine, but don't try to tell me I have to go along with this trans fiasco. There are 2 sexes / genders, referred to as "he" and " she" etc. The world has gone MAD.

Have you contacted the school? You should post it on twitter

Her behaviours are a matter of choice but her sex is not... and she didn't pretend to be anything other than a woman. She wasn't 'presenting' or 'identifying' as anything.

What a load of shit!

I've heard this before. It's nothing new.

Well, OBVIOUSLY short hair equals trans. I mean, the middle aged transwomen all think wearing mini skirts and low cut tops = women, so...obviously cliched clothes = sex designated to aforementioned cliche clothes.

So we are transing dead women now? Great!

So now there are no women in history. What century are we living in?!