Joan of Arc was trans????

Speculate away.

She wasn’t a transman because

• there are no records of her having dysphoria around her gender

• she referred to herself as a maid

• she believed that she was fulfilling a prophecy that could only be fulfilled by a woman

• she dressed in men’s clothes in order to be able to fight, and strongly rejected anyone telling her that they “made her a man”.

So yes, we do have a very strong idea that she was not a trans man, and it is belittling, patronising and ahistorical to suggest that any gender non comforting woman in history is trans.

Are you going to start speculating over whether living women are really women if they don't wear dresses too?

@Ekofish it's 100% not on the Just Like Us charity website, and OP has made it clear it applies to a specific school, while implying that it's something much bigger than that in the first post, thus not being willing to provide a link. It appears to be conjuring outrage out of almost nothing.

@Sophoclesthefox we have literally no idea whether Joan of Arc was a trans man - for a start there wasn't really any language to describe such a thing. Her devotion to dressing in men's clothing continued after she was captured, and she really stuck to that, but that says nothing about her form of gender non-conformity. I don't see there is any issue with speculating, though, any more than speculating about historical figures' sexuality. Unless you think it's too soon?

If you don’t think OP is in good faith, dadjoke, you can scroll on by, or report. Or you could join in the discussion of who might believe Jeanne d’Arc was a trans man and why they would. All great options, and no under the radar troll hunting necessary.

@Greenandcabbagelooking, have you thought of getting involved in the Safe Schools Alliance?

And isn't teaching rubbish like that against the DoE guidelines?

Which institution would that be? The OP has confirmed it's not Schools Diversity Week.

I don’t think OP has confirmed that?

OP said It's Schools Diversity Week this week.

Schools Diversity Week is run by the Just Like Us charity, so I would think that’s the likely source?

"Schools Diversity Week" isn't an organisation. It's a initiative run by the Just Like Us charity. The OP has clearly said that this content was in her school bulletin, so has come from the SLT at her school or been approved by them. Other posters have said that the actual origin is likely from the Just Like Us resources, which are behind a schools sign up page so not accessible for the general public. The OP has also said that she doesn't want to share screenshots, for obvious reasons.

I get that you think this has all been invented by the OP, but you need to report posts that you think are malicious to MNHQ rather than passive aggressively troll hunt on the thread.

Not to mention misogyny of the highest order...

I quoted a speculative question of yours Imasoulman.

Any discussion on whether she may or may not be trans is pure speculation and grossly inappropriate.

Quite.

She cross dressed because it was a rape deterrent to do so. It's fucking disgusting.

Nobody on here was discussing whether JOA was trans or not. We were discussing the enormous overreach of the institution that proposed it...
Any discussion on whether she may or may not be trans is pure speculation and grossly inappropriate.

You will have to explain that again!
You have quoted a question that I asked, not a speculative answer !!
You seem confused

Do you not think its possible that the voice of God could have been her way or trying to rationalise or process relentless dysphoria?

I'm not speculating on anything

Do you understand what speculate means? Here's a dictionary definition for you.

speculate verb [I] (GUESS)
to guess possible answers to a question when you do not have enough information to be certain:
I don't know why she did it - I'm just speculating.

If Joan had been trans, when there was a prophecy that France would be saved by "a maiden from Lorraine" then presumably 'Jean' would have ignored it, since he'd consider himself a man.

To believe that she was the maiden from the prophecy, she must have considered herself a maiden...

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@Imasoulman you realise that in one and the same post you say that you think the idea of her being trans is ridiculous, but then go on to suggest that her hearing voices she attributed to God might have been her way of trying to rationalise or process relentless dysphoria!!

There is no evidence to suggest she felt any dysphoria or in any way felt she was a man. In fact, the records we have of what she said make it clear that she knew and understood herself to be a woman. Notes were taken daily during her trial as she was speaking, which have survived as they were taken to this day. That's probably about as certain as you're ever going to get for historical records.[/quote]

I know the two comments may sound conflicting but to be clear I don't believe she was Trans.
But in the spirit of discussion and exploring different views I thought the voice of God thing was an interesting point

How many times do I have to say that I don't believe she was Trans ?

I'm not speculating on anything, I was joining in with a discussion, offering points of views and thoughts.
Sorry but if you want a bun fight I'm not interested.

Most if not all saints m and f 'heard voices from god'. It kind of goes with the saint territory.

Enough now, with the gender bollocks (no pun intended)

@Imasoulman you realise that in one and the same post you say that you think the idea of her being trans is ridiculous, but then go on to suggest that her hearing voices she attributed to God might have been her way of trying to rationalise or process relentless dysphoria!!

There is no evidence to suggest she felt any dysphoria or in any way felt she was a man. In fact, the records we have of what she said make it clear that she knew and understood herself to be a woman. Notes were taken daily during her trial as she was speaking, which have survived as they were taken to this day. That's probably about as certain as you're ever going to get for historical records.

Do you not think its possible that the voice of God could have been her way or trying to rationalise or process relentless dysphoria?

And there you go again.

What do you mean by 'relentless dysphoria'? What makes you think she felt like that?

You're just speculating to fit your belief that there is such a thing as 'being trans' beyond just hating the stereotypes imposed on you because of your sex and/or hating the sexual characteristics of your body.

Not sure I understand what you mean

Absolute rot! We do know... she talked about being a woman.

Stop trying to shoehorn your ideology into everything!

Firstly I think the whole idea of her being Trans is ridiculous, I have already said so in this thread.

I don't think I have ever said that being Trans is the only reason for wearing clothes normally associated with your opposite sex !!
There are a hundred and one reasons for doing that.

The only argument I have made within this debate is that we will never know one or the other, she should be remembered for what she did not what she wore.

Do you not think its possible that the voice of God could have been her way or trying to rationalise or process relentless dysphoria?

Maybe they meant transvestite rather than transgender? You don't seem to hear it so much now but it used to be much more common than transgender although I think it was used more for men dressing as women but presumably it could apply to women in mens clothes.

I'm not sure what else a Trans person could do in the 1400's other than adopt the style of their true gender.

What do you mean by 'trans person'?

And why do you think being a trans person is the only reason for wearing the clothes of the opposite sex? According to the link I posted, she wore men's clothing because she believed God had told her to, not because she thought she was a man.