Name of this section

100% agree @GreenWhiteViolet, and nice username too.

Ah yes! Thank you, Ted.

Feminist writing/literature I think

I'm trying to recall through my bloody menopausal brain fog what the original FWR boards were when I joined MN a decade or so ago, before 'Feminism Chat' was created. There was Feminist support, feminist theory, and ... ? Please jog me someone.

Therecwas

Yep, 'debate' is the opposite of '#nodebate' in my head.

Both under FWR

Presumably that can go on the other board then? If it’s not debate about sex and gender, just a primal scream. Or indeed a Feminist subject where sex and constructed gender considerations are pertinent but not the core point?

I can't see that it'll work like that, sadly. I was thinking particularly of the fairly regular threads we have, started by women who have found themselves at odds with teen and young adult family members or work colleagues about this, and who want to vent, seek guidance on how to deal with it, and have the support of other women who don't see them as bigoted witches for knowing that women are oppressed on the basis of their sex. Under the new system, women who have come to MN feeling bruised after heated argument with their genderist kids will now have to post in a topic that expressly invites more 'gender debate'.

In which case, I'm with Ted. No censorship of language. No banned phrases. No 'not in the spirit.' Debate implies robust plain speaking, and anyone who strays in here should be prepared for that.

But it does seem to have been renamed again. I now have Feminism: chat and Feminism: Sex and Gender (no debate)

Sex and Gender Debate is a bland name to appease the haters of FWR.

I’m not sure about that as Stonewall and all the other usual suspects, hate the fact we are even having a “debate”. Freddy McConnell on Times radio on Saturday, spoke for around 5 minutes that there is in fact “no debate” .

So in some ways I think MNHQ are pissing both “sides” off, which is quite an usual way for a business to operate.

I want to be able to go back and forwards between the two feminism boards, in one easy step! It’s infuriating having to keep going back to “Talk”.

Meanwhile, Justine has posted on the other thread. Debate is staying, apparently.

It really does remind me of the drive by MRAs we get who pose a misogynist statement and end it with a demand to 'Discuss.' Hope we're all primed and ready for a day of 'debate' - no slacking with idle conversation or observations about things that affect us as women. No more posting when we feel bruised and weary and just want support from other women who get it.

‘Cool Girls’ and ‘Harridans’ would suffice. It’s what they mean, after all.

I really don't like the split board AT ALL and am finding it confusing and time-consuming to navigate, as if they have deliberately added a layer of complication to accessing discussion which I find infuriating. Most sites strive to make user interaction as easy as possible, so it seems like another tactic to obstruct women talking. But, I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually and, as someone who's been here since 2003, I like to believe that MN have some good reason for doing this, the benefits (to us users) of which will become clear in time.

However, the title is a different thing altogether. One of the things that is really clear and pretty much consensual here is that the VAST majority of FWR users utterly reject the concept of gender, so to put it in the title of the board we have been 'coercively assigned' feels like trolling. WanderinWomb has already perfectly expressed how I feel upthread. Sticking 'debate' on the end changes this from a place where women support women and can talk amongst themselves, to a sort of public arena where randomers can rock up to poke sticks through the bars of the monkey cage.

I doubt I'll give up MN over this, as I've been here for 18 years and it's part of my daily online life, but I'll probably scroll and post far less as it's too confusing to navigate. Plus, I'm already finding the way the posts are classified is annoyingly unclear (and in itself feels goady.)

Having Feminism: Chat and Feminism: Sex and Gender Debate still ignores the elephant in the room, which is what to do with those pesky threads about trans ideology and news that involves trans persons.

I was just reading the Scarleteen Trans Summer School thread, which is really about safeguarding and misogyny. It has nothing at all to do with a “debate” on sex and gender, but it seems that anything that contains references to trans people or trans ideology has to live in the Sex & Gender section (to protect those whose desire to contribute and discuss and post about other feminist issues is apparently not sincere or robust enough to survive co-existing on the same page of topics).

It is such a mistake to reduce all of feminism to these two topics. Not fit for purpose at all.

Not perfect, but a definite improvement.

Good! Don’t think we need to include the word gender though.

Yes Justine commented this morning about changing it

Has it just changed? Looks like now both sections have Feminism in front of the title -
Feminism: Sex and Gender Debate
Feminism: Chat

The name now includes Feminism

Just reading the thread in Feminist chat about rough sex and we've been told ,among other things, told that men are more assertive than women. Some great sexism on that thread for feMENism.

Nothing about women/feminism, and instead a reference to "gender" which is the thing the majority of us don't believe in and/or want to be rid of as a concept. Transferring the old name ("Feminist Chat"), which used to be this board, to the other one, which is just confusing. Plus changing it without consultation or even reasonable warning/explanation. Not impressed.