So Mumsnet ignored our request to have something to do with 'feminism' or 'women' in the name of the 'naughty step' subtopic

If the G-word is going to be in the title of this section, I'd want it to be 'g' for 'Girls', to go along with Women's Rights. That's the G most of us are fighting for.

Yes I saw those.

But how many of those are single issue/ not interested in feminism/ definitely not feminists?

I've seen a lot of really odd posts on other topics on this board.

Also the influx of women from overseas, while welcome obviously. Has led to some pretty confused threads with talking from totally different cultural and historical contexts.

I've not RTFT .... just started trawling through threads I started, reporting ones that seem to have been moved here in error.

I find the idea that the fwr board and this topic are somehow vital to MN success really peculiar. It's tiny compared to the rest of the site

Same

People like to make out that feminism is all that people come here for - it really isn't.
Yes, it's an important part of the site, and a large section, but MN is so much more and people seem to ignore that or pretend not to see.
Yes, Datun might have some figures on the feminism traffic, but that doesn't take away from the fact that a hell of lot of people come for parenting advice, talking about their cats or dogs, recipes etc (NOT saying that's all women think about before someone tries to twist what I'm saying!)
Just that there's a broad range of topics, people and opinions and the site will continue to be massive and diverse even if some FWR posters are pissed off and decide to leave.

Oh and the idea there's a 'proper' feminism board and one for a mainstream feminism that is a bit rubbish.

I don't disagree that libfem does nothing for women.

However the other board will have the threads and posts that are written. I will start threads about other stuff around the world and will happily discuss my views.

The boards have the flavour of the women who post.

I would urge you not to turn your backs on the chat board but to engage and share your perspectives. Lurkers can and do post, women click something in active.

If all the women who have the view eg prostitution is not work it's exploitation leave. Then who is there to face up to the sex work is great posters who rock up whenever a post on that topic comes up on here?

I find the idea that the fwr board and this topic are somehow vital to MN success really peculiar. It's tiny compared to the rest of the site.

It's really not.

@datun had some figures, tagging for her attention.

'It's fairly obvious why this has happened and the significance of the timing of it. Although there has been constant attacks against FWR for the length of its existence, it was easy for TRA's to smear the women on here as 'transphobes', 'mad feminists', 'genital obsessives' etc. People would parrot that it's a 'transphobic' website based in part on bad faith posters who post carefully curated screenshots on Twitter.'

You've seen what Twitter is like.
You've seen the threats.
You know what the dominant political and media angle has been.

Justine is not anonymous.

I dread to think what she's getting posted at her etc, every day, and for at least the last couple of years over this.

They did not have to host this topic.

I find the idea that the fwr board and this topic are somehow vital to MN success really peculiar. It's tiny compared to the rest of the site.

I've also been here through at least two exoduses of large groups of women from fwr. Long term regular frequent posters. It didn't impact the site at all! Apart from maybe some posters who had been lurking starting to post as the intimidating ones had gone.

MN also survived when a large group of posters here from the early days who posted all over the place and very well known etc left. People missed them but there was no falling away of other posters.

I'm willing to give this a go

I think maybe I see what they're trying to do.

Surely the point is that 'Sex-Based Rights' is what posters want to discuss. We want to protect sex-based rights from ANY attack upon them, from whatever source. Since the majority of posters who will use this board want to use it to discuss how to protect sex-based rights, then that is what it should be called.

MNHQ would also then be able to introduce rules specific to this board, such that posts which denigrate or advocate the destruction of sex-based rights would be removed.

When the FWR board was set up in the first place.

It didn't used to exist.

Lots of posters didn't like some regular posters, bringing their feminist perspective to threads all over the place.

They said can't we put the Feminists on a separate board so I can hide it.

There was quite a lot of to and fro but in the end get topic was created. Many feminist posters were not happy.

There were merits on both sides and disadvantages. I was on the fence tbh.

So yes it has happened before. And it was about feminism then as well! Don't know about other boards tbh.

No, ‘sex and gender identity’ is still not an accurate representation of the discussion. The two are not linked in any way.

I do not want to discuss gender identity. I want to focus on women’s issues. Without it becoming about men.

However given that the tide is turning perhaps future battles will no longer be fought on Mumsnet.

Sex and gender identity?

Agree debate is not great.

I'm really not sure what the purpose of the split is.

It came out of leftfield.

There are loads of reason why it will cause MN more hassle than they get at the moment which I imagine is a lot!

It's a neon light saying here there be dragons! No more trawling through threads about reproduction and whatnot.

OTOH the topic has got dominated by the topic which is understandable. It might allow other issues to come to the fore. I'm not sure though. Fwr cycles through different dominant flavours, as it were, depending mainly on the most regular and frequent posters. And how dominant they are, I suppose. I've loved some and hated some.

In the end. Maybe. The board has become single topic really. And women coming to MN who don't know much about feminism night have a look. And in its current form it's pretty off-putting I imagine and anyone popping by won't stop and find out more etc. This topic also has attracted a large number of people who care about this topic but aren't Feminists, also posters from overseas who again are here for this topic and on other threads can sometimes press points that are not relevant here.

So maybe it's a good thing. I've come round a bit.

Happy to give it a go.

Still think change it to sex and gender identity though.

So if I post on the board I'm a demon inclusive of penis am I?

And I meant feminist not demon!

The problem with this title I think is that it's effectively saying if you don't believe in sex-based rights then you're unwelcome in this topic.

Wow. This is bold.

The 'debate' is surely about whether there is a conflict between trans rights and women's rights and if so, how best to address this conflict. I am happy to put a lot of time, effort and good will into that debate.

I'm not prepared to give the time of day to people who 'don't believe in sex-based rights' in the first place. The word for those people is misogynists.

This is really basic stuff. Sex is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act and so we do have rights based on sex. We have the right to not be discriminated against or harassed because of our sex.

I thought this was understood because a couple of days ago you said, Mumsnet is an inherently female-centred and feminist space and we have an honourable history of supporting and promoting feminist viewpoints.

I hope misogynists do feel unwelcome here, and everywhere else on MN. Same goes for racists, people who 'don't believe in' disability rights, rights for lesbian and gay people etc.

If I wanted to debate whether I should have sex-based rights or not then there are plenty of MRA and incel sites I could choose from.

@Orangecircling there are plenty of posters who seem to be enjoying having a good sneer at those who are disappointed in the name change and board split. The whole thing is divisive and not constructive.

[quote Ninkanink]@Orangecircling

It’s not sneering. It’s factual.

Sometimes truth is difficult to accept. That doesn’t make it any less true.[/quote]
I was responding to this one where I and any other posters using the feminism chat board are now labelled penis inclusive.

Ridiculous.

@Orangecircling uhm no. I said no such thing.

@NutellaEllaElla

Quoted the wrong post, sorry.

@JustineMumsnet I stress again that we have not silenced or siloed anyone!

Those of us who want to be free to discuss narcissistic abuse such as coercive control and DARVO do feel silenced and have to tread on eggshells to discuss it (ironically all part of it). I posted on the other thread (where you announced splitting the board) about narcissistic abuse, such coercive control and DARVO, those posts were deleted. I have since learnt that other users have had posts removed and have even been banned for talking about these harmful practices males use to oppress women. Now that transwidows are getting media coverage and ‘cancel culture’ is being seen for what it is; a way of silencing debate. I think sites deleting posts and banning users exposing male’s abusive behaviour will be looked on very unfavourably indeed very soon. Can you please confirm that it is mumsnet policy to remove posts that expose males or a group of males use of coercive control and DARVO, if you get reports from people who don’t like women discussing these abusive practices?

this feels like a punishment

somebody somewhere is taking out their frustrations on their content providers

wondering if adding “Feminism:” at the start of each thread title on the board be helpful in the meantime?