So Mumsnet ignored our request to have something to do with 'feminism' or 'women' in the name of the 'naughty step' subtopic

My opinion on this has hardened overnight. I didn’t mind yesterday but then I read a comment by a PP that this is like having a section labelled Race and Eugenics, and overnight I have changed my mind. It is offensive to call the feminism section Gender when gender is the construct that has been used to oppress us all for millennia and is particularly pernicious right now.

MNHQ you have made a huge error here. This is offensive.

I too appreciate Justine engaging here but I do wish that the communication around this change had been better. Casually dropping it into a different thread was bad enough but then there was no actual confirmation that the change was going ahead and nothing to let users know that the board was being split yesterday.
Just comes over to me as very dismissive of users.
And please drop 'Debate''.

Males have raped females in female prisons.

Males have removed safety measures in female sports and been responsible for serious injuries like fractured skulls while using social media to claim they enjoyed it.

Males have destroyed the reputation of females who stand up for our legally recognised sex based rights while verbally abusing them and threatening sexual assault.

Males continue to murder females daily (and abuse the females who post on this very site for help, guidance and support).

Males who identify as women continue to offend at the same levels as males who identity with bullshit socially constructed stereotypes and prejudices masculine gender norms.

I'm more interested in those consequences.
There is no debate. Using that word implies a legitimacy in allowing all these things to continue to happen and supporting the removal of females' 'sex based rights' (a phrase coincidentally less words than "sex and gender debate" ).

I too appreciate the continued engagement @JustineMumsnet.

‘Debate’ needs to go. I’d also be much happier if gender is got rid of. It isn’t relevant.

@JustineMumsnet
I appreciate your continuing engagement on this topic. I am another one who doesn’t feel debate adds anything in the title. It is clear that the board will be a discussion without it needing the word debate.

The main reason I have premium membership is a recognition that there is a cost to MN of maintaining this discussion. Hopefully the tide is turning especially after the RA / JdW farce.

I reall appreciate the dialogue here though Justine, I'm borderline considering premium.

(It's just I decided to patreon the detrans charity over premium last time.)

The trans widows threads aren't a debate. Their experiences aren't an opinion or point of view that they need to "get over" or accept, or change and feel happier about.

There needs to be very serious consideration about where those threads go, or the title of the board.

Thanks. I think that's an improvement but I agree that debate is superfluous as debate/discussion is a given on an internet forum.

Remove debate?

It’ll be shorter and it’s really not necessary

If the number of words is an issue then 'Feminism: sex and gender' for me. I don't think the word 'debate' is doing much heavy work in this context - this is already a discussion board.

It’s not any longer though - not as far as Google are concerned anyway.

I must admit the it’s costing us line is a bit off to me too

Quite sinister to mention finances actually.

'W*men' toe the line because we're losing money in the name of your limited freedom to discuss issues deeply relevant to your lives.

Or did I misunderstand that @MNHQ?

Justine originally I wasn't as bothered as some about having 'feminism' in the title but your reference to google is making me think again. Is this board less likely to show up in a google search if there's no mention of 'Feminism'? Because if so, then it hardly needs saying that's very concerning.

It also feels quite provocative (even if not intentionally) to allow one of the boards to keep the word while removing it from the other.

If the number of words is an issue then 'Feminism: sex and gender' for me. I don't think the word 'debate' is doing much heavy work in this context - this is already a discussion board.

www.seroundtable.com/amp/google-longer-title-tags-seo-30985.html

Yea I agree.

The thread about female hormones and female athletes and injury risk was briefly plopped in sex and gender. Wasn't a debate. Was feminist research. V glad to see it swiftly moved back.

In tempted to start any threads in feminism chat and let the mods decide where it goes. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My concern about the split and unfortunately I haven't RTFT is that in Feminist Chat I often came across threads that I might not normally read. This meant that sometimes my support was given where I might normally have missed the issue. This should be concerning for all Feminists.

I hope I don't miss something important. We should start a look on the other board thread, on both of them, somewhat like Bunbury's and Bluestocking

(Oops posted too soon) ....plus takes into account that not all discussions are "debates", there are a lot of support and advice threads within this subject.

I've just read through the thread (although it's been a sleepless night so I may have missed things) but i can't can't see anything mentioned.
Was "gender critical feminism" considered? Isn't that most descriptive and actually contains the word feminism. Plus takes into account that

Just have to make sure loads goes to aibu too I suppose.

Loads of threads in feminism chat go on to discuss issues of identifying as the opposite sex; one is there where I've done it myself as it is relevant to the discussion, which is a wider one about feminism. So it's a bit pointless.

It's annoying switching but as a result I'm seeing more threads I suppose. (I'm in the app.)