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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to get through to 8 year old

31 replies

CallMeNutribullet · 21/06/2021 09:09

Last night my 8 year old DD broke down and told me she wanted to be a boy.

She's always been fairly gender conforming but recently has said she's not a big fan of school skirts and dresses because she finds trousers more comfortable. She also asked for a couple of items of clothing from the "boys" section (which of course is fine). I've always told her there's no such thing as boys clothes/toys but probably not done enough to fight the onslaught of pink.

She's recently started puberty and I think isn't too keen on her changing body. She also has very fixed ideas about gender I'm struggling to tackle. She said she wants to be a boy because they get to do more "fun" stuff like learning to box and football. She doesn't like getting the tangles brushed from her long hair and enjoys gaming.

I've enrolled her in a boxing class and she'd like her hair bobbed so booked an appointment for that. I've told her she will always be a girl but there's nothing she can't do and if people in school tell her otherwise she should tell them there's no such thing as boys/girls stuff.

Does anyone recommend anything else? I'm really worried she'll get caught up in gender ideology as a way to "fix" the unfairness of these bullshit sexist stereotypes. Are there any good books about GNC girls aimed at her age?

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RedSquirrelRoar · 21/06/2021 21:09

A book with a strong girl protagonist - Ronja the Robber’s Daughter by Astrid Lindgren - one of my favourites as a child!

dumdedah · 21/06/2021 14:36

Sounds like you have it in hand, and lots of helpful advice given.

Couple more suggestions
The Mighty Girl website has lots of good resources (although can be a bit US-focussed)
www.amightygirl.com/

Love this Elise Gravel poster. Simple but effective
elisegravel.com/en/blog/girls-can-be/
I put it on the wall in the upstairs loo, and some weeks later my daughter came to tell me she knew it by heart and recited it. It's now in her room.

Also (and you may have done this already anyway) I think its important to not skip the sympathy stage, so she knows you appreciate the frustrations she has, and share your own maybe, with how things can be restrictive and tougher for girls and women. I find with my kids (and with myself too!) that if someone goes 'yeah, it sucks' and offers an ear and shared experiences, then they're in a better mind to start looking to solutions.

Sillydoggy · 21/06/2021 14:34

On top of all the good stuff you are doing talk to her about sexist stereotypes, laugh at the silly people who say girls can't do xyz, talk about how it can be difficult being a girl especially during puberty. I think it is so important to tell them that sometimes it does feel awful but the answer is to find a new project, read a new book, find some friends who are like you, do some exercise and fundamentally things will get better. Mighty Girl website and Facebook page have inspiring women and good empowering reading lists.

thirdfiddle · 21/06/2021 14:06

As a side effect of having these discussions with DD, 9, she's getting pretty good at calling out sexism when she sees it. Mini feminists rock :)

thirdfiddle · 21/06/2021 13:59

I believe that teams tend to be mixed sex up to the age of 11 although it tends to be just one girl amongst many boys.
Friend's DD in y5-6 played in a girls team out if school, and in the school team where she was the only girl. I think she was allowed to continue playing with the boys school teams at y7-8 (school didn't have enough interested to make a girls school team) but at some point the boys start pulling away and safety becomes a concern because of the size + strength differential.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/06/2021 13:26

Sounds as if you're doing a good job OP and there's some great support on this thread.

One thing I'd suggest (in addition to any social media access, especially via gaming) is checking what is happening in her school? There are some pretty grim materials (and organisations) out there selling materials to schools that breach the DfE guidelines that children should not be taught that they're born in the wrong body. Sadly too few teachers seem to have the insight / safeguarding sense (or maybe courage) to critically evaluate what they're using. Hopefully it's not the case in your school but as a pp said, check with the school to make sure make sure there is no attempt at positive affirmation should your daughter express these thoughts at school.

CaveMum · 21/06/2021 11:15

@Triffid1

Lots of great advice here that I'd echo.

Karate and other martial arts often have a slightly higher ratio of girls I've found (still more boys, but plenty of girls too) so might be worth checking out.

Also, at 8, football and other sports will start segregating and having girls teams, which will give her opportunity to meet other girls who also like sports. I'd be actively looking for a girls football group or similar.

And definitely, start following and sporting women's sport. I believe the English Women's Cricket team are pretty impressive? Hockey is one that is very widely played by women and very competitive globally I think?

Agree with this about martial arts. My daughter (7) started Kuk Sool Won in September, the class she started in was mostly boys but when she moved up to the next age group on turning 7 the classes are more or less 50/50 girls and boys. Her teacher is a woman (which I think helps enormously in getting girls interested in sports) who is a multiple national champion.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing in letting her cut her hair how she wants it and by all means let her wear whatever clothes she chooses and is comfortable in - I think most of us went through a phase of wanting to wear baggy, androgenous clothing to hide out changing bodies during puberty.

Be supportive and understanding of her feelings but don't refer to her by different names or pronouns and keep reinforcing the message that there is no such thing as "girl things" or "boy things".

I'd also think about a chat with her teacher to make sure there is no attempt at positive affirmation should your daughter express these thoughts at school.

Beamur · 21/06/2021 11:02

I think you're going about this in a good way. It's possible to do all the things she wants to do and be female.
My DD has short hair and boxes. As do lots of girls at the boxing gym she attends.
Definitely get her into female centric clubs and sports.
Puberty sucks and 8 is pretty young to be dealing with this. My DD now uses period pants when menstruating which were a game changer. No rustling, no bulkiness of pads and much less visible blood. Easy to manage. I would recommend them.

Lessthanaballpark · 21/06/2021 10:52

It is such sexist bollocks you’re right and a classic example of the damage that decades of gender stereotyping has led to.

Kids have been taught that girls and boys are groups that are so different in personality that if one identifies with traits of the other they think they gave to jump ship.

Triffid1 · 21/06/2021 10:52

Lots of great advice here that I'd echo.

Karate and other martial arts often have a slightly higher ratio of girls I've found (still more boys, but plenty of girls too) so might be worth checking out.

Also, at 8, football and other sports will start segregating and having girls teams, which will give her opportunity to meet other girls who also like sports. I'd be actively looking for a girls football group or similar.

And definitely, start following and sporting women's sport. I believe the English Women's Cricket team are pretty impressive? Hockey is one that is very widely played by women and very competitive globally I think?

Thingybob · 21/06/2021 10:44

I'd also be encouraging friendships/play dates with friends who are boys if that's who your daughter prefers to spend time with so she knows she can be a girl but hang out with the boys and do everything they do, and maybe do it better!

Ozanj · 21/06/2021 10:43

Sounds like she has associated being a boy with fun, so it might be a good idea to get her enrolled into girl centric activities that are fun. For my neice just enrolling her into Girl Guides and various girl centred athletic and sports clubs (including climbing) got her back on track.

Thingybob · 21/06/2021 10:40

Regarding football, is there not a school club or a local team she could join? I believe that teams tend to be mixed sex up to the age of 11 although it tends to be just one girl amongst many boys.

Kotatsu · 21/06/2021 10:36

Is there some way you can have a quiet word with her teacher - could she be being bullied in some way, that's bringing this out now (although obviously I know puberty is enough!)

Can you engineer some non-threatening time alone with her? My DSes have a habit, if there's something on their mind, of waiting for the other to go to sleep, then coming down for an hour of snuggle/talk to mum time - if you have more than one child it's hard as a single parent for them to get one on one time otherwise.

CallMeNutribullet · 21/06/2021 10:28

She does want a bob as she said she'd prefer hair like mine although I think it's probably because she still wants to conform to an extent. I've ordered some books from Amazon with strong, adventurous girls as the leads - there aren't nearly enough! And we're going to the gym tonight (kids have sports sessions while adults use the facilities)

I also feel angry on her behalf. It's such sexist bollocks

OP posts:
ForgotAboutThis · 21/06/2021 10:16

Show her Stacey Copeland's TED talk, about being a girl and wanting to play football and box. She's amazing.

OhHolyJesus · 21/06/2021 10:15

I'm thinking out loud here but has your DD read the Famous Five books? I'm trying to think of an alternative as there is racism (of its time), but I suggest it as the character George wanted to be a boy but was already better than the boys at some activities like swimming and rowing. She was fiesty and fiercely independent and an outsider as an only child and had an extended family with her cousins (Anne being stereotypically girly, making the sandwiches and tidying up their tent/cave/cabin, which showed girls can be different, there is not one way to be a girl.)

(Disclaimer: the parents in Enid Blyton books were largely neglectful and bad examples for children IMO.)

With her interest in sport and the Olympics coming up it seems a good opportunity to look for examples. The boxing classes are an excellent idea, it's a really good way to build confidence, be fit and healthy and strong and and teach discipline. I also agree with the PP advice. You sound like you're doing all the right things. Really sad for your DD that she has started puberty aged 8, it's so crap at any age but 8? I do feel for her.

I hope you're ok and good luck with the court case.

saynotofondant · 21/06/2021 10:11

Re. Books about GNC girls:

Amber Brown en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber_Brown

The Magic Finger, Matilda - Roald Dahl

The Ramona Quimby series by Beverly Cleary

I LOVED the Famous Five when I was your daughter’s age. George (Georgina) was my heroine. However, her severe case of “not like the other girls” also infected me for a while… Enid Blyton wrote plenty of other adventure stories (Secret Seven, the Adventure Series, the Mystery Series), all with mixed groups of kids. Looking back, there are other problems with her books (the villains are quite often “swarthy” or “foreigners”…) but I don’t know if that might have only been her earlier stuff. The Adventure Series definitely had a more “modern” feel than the Famous Five.

thirdfiddle · 21/06/2021 10:08

Boxing sounds like a great start. Show her she can do whatever she wants.
And yy trousers/shorts for school, much more practical, DD loves it.
Is a bob what she actually wants or would she rather have really short hair? I guess you can do it in stages, if she'd still prefer it shorter it's easily cut.

I feel quite angry for her at the sexism. All kids I know like gaming, and girls football is hardly rare. Nobody should be telling her she has to be a boy to want these things.

Is there a girls football team around? Maybe counterintuitive but actually doing it with just girls might help show her it's in no way a "boy" activity, and she might find some less stereotype bound friends.

CallMeNutribullet · 21/06/2021 10:01

Thanks all this is great advice

OP posts:
Faffertea · 21/06/2021 09:53

Sounds like you’re doing the right things already. DS is 8 and like you have tried to do the ‘there’s no such thing as boys/girls toys’ etc but it’s so pervasive isn’t it? DS will say ‘that’s for girls’ about different things. It’s ironic because I’m the main bread winner, have a professional career etc and am definitely not ‘girly’.
I recently bought a book called “Folk tales for Bold girls” for a friend’s daughter who is also struggling with what society expects her to be interested in. It’s got folk tales from different parts of the world in it and the stories are very positive.

DialSquare · 21/06/2021 09:52

I would tell her about women like Nicola Adams and Alex Scott to show her that not only can she do boxing and play football but can also be very successful at it.

Siblingquandary · 21/06/2021 09:46

This org seems good:

www.youbeyou.co.uk/

Some good resource suggestions for parents

YellowFish12 · 21/06/2021 09:44

Oh I love @JonahofArk advice

YellowFish12 · 21/06/2021 09:43

Agree it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

Can dress and act how she wants. Nothing wrong with liking things that people say are 'for boys'. Lots of sport so she is proud of her body.

Ironically she might find longer hair easier to deal with for sport unless she goes SUPER short - tight plaits seems to be the hairstyle of choice to keep hair out of eyes for sport.

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