"Trans widows’ fear being trapped in loveless marriages if gender law changes" in today's Telegraph

Redapplewreath

Really good post.

Also consider this.

You're a British couple. You like to holiday in Dubai...or the Maldives. Or you want to save up to go there on honeymoon.

You've have no worries about getting arrested for holding hands in public, or kissing your spouse. You have no worries about being locked up.in prison abroad.

Your spouse says "I'm transitioning. Accept it. Tough shit on you. You are now legally in a same-sex marriage. You go on holiday. You hold hands. You get arrested. You get thrown in a foreign prison. For 5-15 years. Not out of the realms of possibility. British nationals are getting locked up abroad for all sorts.

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]I find it ridiculous that Stonewall appear to claim that a family member being unsupportive of gender identity is domestic violence when two women a week are killed by their partners.

And an estimated 2 women take their own lives per week because of domestic violence or similar.

In addition, approximately 400 people commit suicide each year who have attended hospital for domestic abuse injuries in the previous six months, 200 of these attend hospital on the day they go on to commit suicide

lwa.org.uk/understanding-abuse/statistics/

www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/high-suicidality-among-people-experiencing-domestic-abuse/[/quote]
Fuck.

That's more than one a day.

I am reluctant to be in any situation where you have to get your spouses permission to do something like this, does this work for women also? Do they have to get permission to change?

This is not the case. It is not permission to transition - that is entirely in the hands of the transitioner.

This is the spouse being asked whether they consent to remain in the marriage with this massive shift in what they agreed to when entering into the legal contract of marriage. And whether they consent to now being part of a same sex marriage, which frames them as homosexual whether or not they choose to identify themselves as such.

If they do not consent to remain in the marriage then if I understand correctly, an interim GRC is granted - please bear in mind how very very few people actually apply for one of these as part of their transition, the massive majority of transitioners do not - until the marriage has been annulled. When that has happened, and the spouse has been released from the marriage, the full GRC certificate is granted. There is no practical impact upon transition.

Annulment is necessary since not all women of all faiths and cultures are easily able to divorce without significant disadvantages.

As any frequent reader of MN knows, the issues for a woman having to fight for a divorce with an unwilling to grant it partner can be a lengthy, extremely expensive and distressing process. Transition is often an extremely expensive thing, there are many accounts of family funds and assets being severely affected and depleted, and in almost all cases the wife will be the one who will primarily be supporting the children through their father's transition, and providing home and future for them as their resident parent after this massive upheaval in the family life. It is easy to see that a two year battle to gain legal separation may be a severe burden to inflict on mother and children and worsen their situation.

This is not 'do you give him permission to transition' - the transitioning partner is free to do as they wish.

This is 'do you consent to remain in a legally binding marriage upon these changed terms'.

It's hard to imagine why someone might feel a woman's consent should not be an essential part of this.

Should one party have the right to retroactively change a contract?
Why is saying 'no' being framed as coercive control and abuse?

And screw them and their offspring over in legal financial support.

Its a change in contract.

Yes. For all people like to spout "marriage is just a piece of paper", it is actually a legal contract.

And social and religious. Some religions deem marriage legal AND religious. Some countries deem marriage legal - or not - depending upon laws of the land and religious laws of the land.

See atheist people scratching their heads over the furore surrounding PM Johnson's latest marriage.

Officially, he has been married once. Officially he has been married several times. Both are true.

It really is not just "a piece of paper".

Transwidows cross a broad spectrum.

In all cases they have people in their lives trying to * them over. Through emotional - and legal blackmail.

What impact does it have that people tend not to be content with merely changing sex, they want to rewrite history?

My impression is it's all about £££££. For the transitioning men, and for Stonewall.

MRA 101.

I find it ridiculous that Stonewall appear to claim that a family member being unsupportive of gender identity is domestic violence when two women a week are killed by their partners.

And an estimated 2 women take their own lives per week because of domestic violence or similar.

In addition, approximately 400 people commit suicide each year who have attended hospital for domestic abuse injuries in the previous six months, 200 of these attend hospital on the day they go on to commit suicide

lwa.org.uk/understanding-abuse/statistics/

www.nationalelfservice.net/mental-health/suicide/high-suicidality-among-people-experiencing-domestic-abuse/

Its a change in contract. The people who oppose it really haven't thought through the legal consequences.

Stonewall think people are stupid.

But hey. Gravy train £££££££££

The misrepresentation becomes blindingly obvious.

I'm off out now for a real life piss up with fellow terven.

Enjoy

Well done Tinsel!

Great work Tinsel

I find it ridiculous that Stonewall appear to claim that a family member being unsupportive of gender identity is domestic violence when two women a week are killed by their partners.

Enjoy

Well done.

So. To me, it would make sense if when a married person declared themselves to be the same sex/gender as their spouse, there was an immediate annulment of the marriage, attributed to and any legal costs paid for by the person who has changed their identity. What a nightmare the present situation is, where a woman can be recorded as married to a woman, when in fact she married a man. There would have to be an option for the couple to continue in the marriage if they both wished, but the assumption should be that such a radical change in lifestyle would bring all prior agreements to an end.

Well done, everyone involved, for trying to bring some clarity into the situation.

…or in effect they will be forced into a same sex marriage

I'm the biggest TERF going but I am reluctant to be in any situation where you have to get your spouses permission to do something like this, does this work for women also? Do they have to get permission to change?
Its a bit Gilead!!
However I do believe that this should legally annul a marriage if one party wants that and we should be fighting for that.

[quote joolzfromyork]@Thelnebriati

Someone who wants to transition but is prevented from obtaining a full GRC because their partner objects can exit the marriage and transition. They aren't forced to stay married.
A partner who doesn't want to be in a same sex marriage should have the same right

Do they not enjoy that right now?
Are they somehow Forced to stay married?

I don't understand what is being posted here ...[/quote]
No, as jax explained they need to be able to divorce or have the marriage dissolved BEFORE the GRC certificate is issued

Tinsel and other transwidow(er)s

TinselAngel - I'm so relieved that you and the other transwidows are beginning to be brought into the public consciousness because you weren't well served by Kathleen Stock's coverage of you in her book.

I think the questions in this thread show how confusing and completely framed on the needs of the transitioning partner the debate and public understanding has been.