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Original poster

Stonewall's missed campaigns

55 replies

SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 09:58

We all know Stonewall has dropped the ball When it comes to LGB people. It used to have some excellent resources for lesbians, for example this document published in 2009 was really handy when me and DW were planning our family:

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/pregnantpauseewithcoverr2.pdf

This started me thinking about what Stonewall could have done instead of trampling over women’s rights.

1.	Started a campaign for IVF equality. Infertile heterosexual couples get between 1 and 3 rounds of IVF funded by the NHS depending on where they live. Funding for same-sex couples is practically non-existent.

2.	Campaign to make it illegal to teach under 18s that homosexuality is a sin / gays are going to hell. This is still being drummed into kids in churches and other religious organisations across the country which can be very damaging for the mental health of young, gay children and teenagers. 

3.	Championed lesbian visibility and support groups for lesbians and bisexual women as their voices are often drowned out in mixed LGBTQ+ groups

Any others?

I am hoping the LGB Alliance will pick this stuff up.

OP posts:
NecessaryScene · 19/06/2021 12:31

Apart from tackling the new homophobia coming from gender ID activists, I think that the main huge area for UK gay rights organisations is building links with other countries and trying to help out there. 71 countries still criminalise some aspect of homosexuality. LGBA is doing it to an extent.

Merely by existing they're helping.

At the minute, many will believe - with some justification - LGB rights inevitably leads to current Stonewall.

Homophobes in those 71 countries can point to places like Canada and the US and say "if you let the gays have their way, next they'll be drugging your kids and letting men into women's sports".

Stonewall's current campaigning in this country is harming LGB people worldwide.

LGB Alliance is a necessary counterweight to that - demonstrating that not all gay people believe in this stuff, and that they will call it out. (Just as gay people have had to call out groups in their midst with dubious views in the past).

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 19/06/2021 12:28

I'm definitely not ashamed of myself for suggesting that young gay and lesbian teenagers should not be told their sexuality is a sin. That if they act on it they are going to hell. That they must remain single and celibate their entire lives

This is exactly what one of my religious friends has said to me about ds1

Its obviously what children within their religion are being taught

Original poster
SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 12:19

This is literally Section 28 in reverse. I don't have any time for fundamentalists, but you should be ashamed at yourself for even suggesting this

I'm definitely not ashamed of myself for suggesting that young gay and lesbian teenagers should not be told their sexuality is a sin. That if they act on it they are going to hell. That they must remain single and celibate their entire lives.

This is really damaging stuff that can seriously affect the mental health of young, impressionable gay people. I'm
Speaking from experience.

OP posts:
InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 19/06/2021 12:05

@dolorsit

Stonewall should have been campaigning for asylum seekers who are claiming asylum due to their sexual orientation. The way some have been treated by the civil service is appalling.
This is another really good suggestion.
InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 19/06/2021 11:58

I agree with the sentiment of your post, OP, although perhaps not the specifics.

  1. Same sex couples ought to be able to access NHS fertility treatment on the same basis as opposite sex couples - but that's as a treatment for infertility for couples struggling to conceive after making an attempt to do so.
  1. This is literally Section 28 in reverse. I don't have any time for fundamentalists, but you should be ashamed at yourself for even suggesting this.
  1. This in an unalloyed good.
  1. I read this earlier - sex-matters.org/posts/a-view-from/beyond-the-rainbow-a-view-from-inside-the-civil-service/
Stonewalls Diversity Champions scheme should have been about encouraging organisations to clamp down on this kind of homophobia, and sought to sway over hearts and minds so people weren't even thinking about it.
  1. Go international. Many countries are even worse for gay people today than the UK was a hundred years ago.
YellowFish12 · 19/06/2021 11:54

The NHS is there to resolve health issues and homosexuality isn't a health issue

Well personally I don’t actually consider infertility in hetro couples a health issue either - but society has deemed hetro couples as worthy of infertility treatment so why not gay couples 🤷‍♀️

dolorsit · 19/06/2021 11:54

Stonewall should have been campaigning for asylum seekers who are claiming asylum due to their sexual orientation. The way some have been treated by the civil service is appalling.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 19/06/2021 11:53

with 8 million a year they could have funded refuges and services for the transcommunity. Instead, they focussed on trying to take mine.

That was a mistake.

Clymene · 19/06/2021 11:49

The NHS is there to resolve health issues and homosexuality isn't a health issue.

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 19/06/2021 11:36

@NonnyMouse1337

Agreed that lesbian couples and single women should have the same entitlement as straight couples. Don't start including gay men in 'fertility equality' campaigning though. That way leads to the NHS paying for people to exploit women in countries where commercial surrogacy is legal.

I think it would be very difficult to legally exclude gay men from fertility equality. You can't say it's ok for this group of people to have access to reproductive technology but not those group of people.

I am completely opposed to surrogacy, but I think in a way IVF has unintentionally led us to this point.

Well if one of the gay men grows a uterus I guess they would be as entitled as anyone else but until that happens they can't access 'reproductive technology' for body parts they don't have
Original poster
SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 11:24

@AnotherLass

Apart from tackling the new homophobia coming from gender ID activists, I think that the main huge area for UK gay rights organisations is building links with other countries and trying to help out there. 71 countries still criminalise some aspect of homosexuality. LGBA is doing it to an extent.
Agreed. There are terrible things being done to gay people, in particular gay men around the world.
OP posts:
AnotherLass · 19/06/2021 11:12

Apart from tackling the new homophobia coming from gender ID activists, I think that the main huge area for UK gay rights organisations is building links with other countries and trying to help out there. 71 countries still criminalise some aspect of homosexuality. LGBA is doing it to an extent.

MiladyBerserko · 19/06/2021 11:05

Or maybe they could have congratulated themselves on a job well done.

Nice tag team dig at LGBA btw.

NonnyMouse1337 · 19/06/2021 10:46

Agreed that lesbian couples and single women should have the same entitlement as straight couples.
Don't start including gay men in 'fertility equality' campaigning though. That way leads to the NHS paying for people to exploit women in countries where commercial surrogacy is legal.

I think it would be very difficult to legally exclude gay men from fertility equality. You can't say it's ok for this group of people to have access to reproductive technology but not those group of people.

I am completely opposed to surrogacy, but I think in a way IVF has unintentionally led us to this point.

heathspeedwell · 19/06/2021 10:39

Given how many millions of pounds of taxpayer's money Stonewall has frittered away I think it's a real shame they didn't campaign for third spaces. They could have solved the public toilets problem by now.

Original poster
SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 10:38

It is not realistic to ban people's religious beliefs, even if we find them upsetting or distasteful

Not for adults but it should be for under 18s

OP posts:
Original poster
SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 10:37

@SmallPug

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?
IVF equality obviously wouldn't be relevant for gay men.

Surrogacy is completely different to IVF and involves the exploitation of women's bodies.

Stonewall could do a campaign to promote gay adoption and fostering though, that would be a very positive thing.

OP posts:
NonnyMouse1337 · 19/06/2021 10:37

It is not realistic to ban people's religious beliefs, even if we find them upsetting or distasteful. Better to have good sex and relationship education in schools that counter negativity around homosexuality, and for people in society to be able to strongly criticise, mock etc such religious beliefs as that provides a counterbalance to such ideas.

People have to learn how to articulate why a particular belief or idea is bad, harmful, damaging and so on rather than a simplistic ban 'because it's wrong!!' which doesn't challenge the mindset but simply drives it underground. If certain ethnic groups have religious and cultural beliefs that demonise same-sex relationships, it's better to encourage grassroots organisations to engage with these groups and tackle such views and attitudes so that over time there is tangible change in people's minds.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 19/06/2021 10:33

Besides - stonewall is a trashed brand now.

toffeebutterpopcorn · 19/06/2021 10:33

@Babdoc

OP, which churches do you claim are teaching such anti gay nonsense? Perhaps you could tell my lesbian minister. She was on the national committee which made our church accept gay ministry. We are completely inclusive here in the C of S.
I worked for the CofE - my boss (a vicar) was really keen officiate at gay weddings. He was really keen on woman vicars and bishops too.
Beeeeeeeeeeeeeep · 19/06/2021 10:29

@SmallPug

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?
Agreed that lesbian couples and single women should have the same entitlement as straight couples. Don't start including gay men in 'fertility equality' campaigning though. That way leads to the NHS paying for people to exploit women in countries where commercial surrogacy is legal.
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 19/06/2021 10:29

We had a leaflet through our door from a church that meets locally all about homosexuality being a sin.

YellowFish12 · 19/06/2021 10:26

@SmallPug

How would IVF equality work for two gay men?
That is interesting.

I actually have quite a problem with surrogacy and I can see that that is in direct opposition to gay men’s desire to have children.

MrsWooster · 19/06/2021 10:26

mishy
I suggest you go and look at LGBA rather than simply abusing them. They are advocation for LGB rights in this country and internationally.
But you know that already.

Original poster
SapphosRock · 19/06/2021 10:23

@Babdoc

OP, which churches do you claim are teaching such anti gay nonsense? Perhaps you could tell my lesbian minister. She was on the national committee which made our church accept gay ministry. We are completely inclusive here in the C of S.
There are some wonderful, inclusive churches and some that aren't.

Many still teach that homosexuality is sinful and must not be acted on. Gay people should be supported to stay single and celibate. For example:

www.fulwoodchurch.co.uk/sermons/homosexuality-questioning-gods-word/

Fine for adults to choose to hear this stuff but it shouldn't be pushed on children and teenagers.

OP posts:
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