Jess de Wahls

Has anyone got a clip of the sign language translator who blagged his way into tv ... but couldn’t actually do sign language and was just waving his hands around?

(remember the taxi driver who ended up on air by mistake?)

One of the best bits of telly ever BraveBananaBadge:

Alone! Spine (autocorrect is censoring me!)

There ought to be an online counter (like those ‘XX days accident free’ ones you see on building sites on tv).

Royal Academy
XX days
Alone free

The lack of response is starting to become a story of its own. It's extraordinary.

The good news is that it is still getting air time. This must be about the 3rd day since the story broke.

The RA can't keep hiding and hope it is going to go away.

Why did the sweet summer child ask "if"? Given how many child abusers and murderers have been mentioned so far, whose work is nevertheless hosted and promoted by the RA, does Eric really think none of them were racist, too?

I mean, what about Gauguin?

"We really need news programmes that dont just ring up their friends in the media to do a quick interview / comment. they should at least get someone who is engaged with the issue."

Exactly, live news programmes need someone quick and sometimes it doesn't much matter who (remember the taxi driver who ended up on air by mistake?). I very much feel this kind of approach led to the unfortunate ubiquity of Farage, and look where that got us. I digress - in this case Helen Lewis on the face of it would have seemed a good fit after Difficult Women, etc.

Well in fact they both said no one really cares about crimes in the past (re male artists) but she just crumbled when faced with the comparison to stating that you cant change sex is the same as being a racist.

Her point was that why are these sexual abusers happily sold by the RA while a woman expressing that a man can't be a woman is vilified.

But I do feel it was badly made.

ie there are some crackpots who deny you can change sex but you should be mean to them about their delusion.

I thought it was the other way round and I thought it was a good point.

I thought Helen Lewis was hopeless.

First of all she compares the "crime" that Jess de Wahls has been complained of is equivilant to male artists who were child sex abusers! What???

Then ED (a committed trans activist) gets in the usual comment that being gender critical is the same as being a racist.

And she then diverts of into it isn't like that its like having different belief systems.

ie there are some crackpots who deny you can change sex but you should be mean to them about their delusion.

We really need news programmes that dont just ring up their friends in the media to do a quick interview / comment. they should at least get someone who is engaged with the issue.

My view cariadlet is there's more value to be had from getting through to the uninformed and undecided than there is in covering all of the talking points that people think have to be discussed.

Sorry if this has been mentioned but the RA sell Gill Xmas cards.

shop.royalacademy.org.uk/eric-gill-the-good-shepherd

@nauticant Definitely. I've only got interested in the issue really recently and that's through mumsnet.

There must be so many people out there who are like I was: not really interested in trans issues but against prejudice generally so thinking that it's good that trans people are facing less discrimination now; not having thought deeply about the need to protect women's rights and women's safe spaces; completely unaware of the awful behaviour of some TRAs.

Helen Lewis came across as so moderate and reasonable that her arguments must have come across well to any neutral listeners.

Let's consider which posters deserve our time and mental energy, eh? For me it's the ones making coherent points in good faith.

Glad Eric Gill had been mentioned.

The bbc also have works by him. In fact I think the original bbc logo was his typeface.

www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2017/apr/09/eric-gill-the-body-ditchling-exhibition-rachel-cooke

The hypocrisy is extremely misogynistic.

Wish Grayson Perry would speak up. He’s a textile artist and must be aware of the story.

"We don't know what the line is yet" she said. Are we waiting to be told what the line is? We do know, and it is not equivalent to not supporting gay marriage. I think actually that interview with Helen Lewis was quite disingenuous sadly, she didn't support Jess de Wahl, neither did she strongly challenge Evan's comparison with direct racism.

Crossposted!

"What if an artist had been blatantly racist?"

Did all the stuff about Eric Gill go over his head?

Poor analogy by Helen Lewis with gay marriage.

It was, wasn't it cariadlet? Because Helen Lewis is by no means a confirmed gender critical feminist that came across as moderate and persuasive.