Jess de Wahls

Can't believe the RA can cause all this, and then (some days later) not be up for going on Today to defend/explain its actions.

Best guess is that the RA is currently in full meltdown, with furious arguments raging about whose fault this is and what they should do now.

I would be interested in knowing what the spilt is of transwomen interviewed on the radio / TV / news versus transmen?

I suspect there are a lot more TW than TM but have no hard evidence to back that up?

I guess freddie is quite vocal in the guardian but I haven't seen too much from other TM?

Katyjon's pinned tweet.

I don't have #pronouns in my bio or email sig as they/I am complex. I like #they, am content with #she, and tolerate short bursts of #he because #gender can be confusing for the wearer and observer. Not taking offence helps but I support respecting and asking others theirs. (1)

I have a sense from a brief look at Twitter that many of the usual suspects were contacted, possibly only this morning, and said no, so no wonder Katyjon hadn't had time to do any background reading. Probably only got about five minutes' notice of the interview. A far more moderate voice than many.

It's always interesting hearing transpeople interviewed on the radio. Transwomen very rarely sound female. Transmen often do sound very male if they've taken testosterone for any length of time.

If organisations had an up front position - we will not withdraw an arrangement with anyone (advertising, stocking products, an article agreed to be published, a job offer, a place on a panel etc etc) because of complaints about opinions they have expressed elsewhere, as long as the speech is lawful. Or, is lawful and is protected by the European convention. Then the organisation doesn't have to make any public assessment of a specific opinion. It doesn't mean they have to host speech that they don't agree with, but that they won't sever a relationship because of lawful speech elsewhere. If enough institutions did that the complaint mobs would get nowhere.

I agree merrymouse, wasn't clear in my meaning there - I meant more that they clearly don't see the Today Programme, (like it or not) a flagship news show in the UK, as an outlet to prioritise, or recognise its gravitas or reach. It's a willing ignorance from the Twitterati that's very off putting.

Although true the issue is the censorship and not what a random token trans person thinks.

I missed jess's interview, but heard the one with Katie, but not quite all the way till the end. I agreed with a fair bit of what she said. But most importantly she was of the view that different views can be put forward, and gender is up for discussion. So I was pleasantly surprised when I realised I was listening to what was supposed to be the counter balance to jess. If the trans rights movement was led and heavily influenced by people with that view we wouldn't be in half of the mess we are in now.

KJW declared gender identity was a protected characteristic under the Equality Act - and also that sex was not binary, just like gender. Without challenge from the interviewer.

Also "sex is a little bit more complicated than the simplicity of male and female" as a broad statement. So this needs to be evidenced.

But at least it was a more discursive approach than I have ever heard before on R4.

The RA Twitter account has limited itself to likes for sketch club contributors since it got ratioed on the Day 3: "Draw something you would think but not say." tweet.

TRAs are trying to imply it's of no importance to deal with, is insane.

Whether or not we agree with them, the question is not whether TWAW, but whether an art gallery should be censoring an artist for saying that they aren't.

Honestly, TRAs probably don't care that much whether de Wahls' work is stocked in the RA shop, given that they claim not to have heard of her, and this decision probably doesn't have much bearing on their lives either way.

However, the RA may very much regret declaring a policy that the general public (wherever they may live) may dictate whose work can be displayed if they perceive it to be offensive.

In my eyes, good on KJW for going on, whatever that person's views.

Can't believe the RA can cause all this, and then (some days later) not be up for going on Today to defend/explain its actions.

“dropping an artist I've only just heard of, called Jess de Wahls.' The 'only just heard of' letting us know how insignificant Fox thinks Jess is.

Many more trans commentators are using the same lines of a storey I know nothing about”

Yes, I felt that Katie Jon had a party line. That this is the new party line is a sign of great progress!

Nettie434 I do take your point but my “briefly famous trans woman” friend declined all interviews which were not about her personally/ where she lacked all expertise because she felt it would be disrespectful to listeners do otherwise. If I told you some of the topics she was asked to opine on you would think I was pulling your leg

"I don't exist to validate other people's idea of themselves" Jess de Wahls

Perfection!

www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/06/18/royal-academy-arts-jess-de-wahls-transphobia-backlash/

Link didn't work?

Katy Jon Went - a non-binary transgender person, and (despite doing the interview on the hoof and getting the Equality Act PCs wrong) was at least reasonable and up for a debate.

"Many more trans commentators are using the same lines of a storey I know nothing about. Very odd that they're all so isolated from this one particular piece of news."

Pink News knew about it...www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/06/18/royal-academy-arts-jess-de-wahls-transphobia-backlash/

Has the TRAverse stopped reading Ben's nonsense?

I've just read Jess 2019 blog post for the first time. It is as succinct as it needs to be while outlining the current issues. Really good summary to share to people asking what the issues are. Thought I would repost a link here as might be useful www.jessdewahls.com/blog

When Katy said they were too busy to go on the Today programme, did they mean too busy on twitter?

Quite, WinterTrees... it's the Today Programme ffs. In normal circs, any organisation would drop anything, immediately to make sure a spokesperson was on. That the RA haven't, and TRAs are trying to imply it's of no importance to deal with, is insane.

Also their idea of what they consider 'the right questions' from an interviewer is very telling as well.

I missed KJW but on FB KJW said they were in bed when R4 called and was unprepared. Going to listen back.

meant to link to the i article

I'm sending this message to the RA
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Having read your message regarding your removal of work by Jess De Wahls from your shop, I have two comments/questions:
a) there are, in fact, two biological sexes, and it is impossible to change from one to the other. This is scientific fact, not a matter of opinion
b) Having been an out lesbian for nearly 50 years, I do see myself as a member of the LGBT+ community. Claiming that the Academy is "standing with us" in this act of censorship is purely insulting. Why do you assume that the community is represented first and foremost by trans rights activists?
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and this letter to the i newspaper, who published this article at the weekend (I don't know if you can read it all without a subscription)
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I was interested to read Katy Brand's article of 19th June on "Great art by bad people". I agree with her that obnoxious or controversial behaviour or views should not mean that works of merit are removed from the public sphere. Picasso's violence towards women doesn't seem to have upset galleries yet. However, the Royal Academy recently removed work by Jess De Wahls from their shop after a handful of complaints about her saying that there are two biological sexes and that it is impossible to change from one to the other.
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Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Jess spoke brilliantly.

JustcameoutGC puts it very well - Jess de Wahls is a self-employed artist, who makes a living from her own creativity. This has massively increased her profile, but not necessarily in a way she wanted and, according to the patreon email she sent out yesterday, has forced a huge overnight change in the way she runs her business, since she can't possibly cope with the increased demand, order fulfilment, admin and PR etc generated by this. It's great, but she's overwhelmed by it, and I guess there's a large part of her that just wants to be left in peace to make her work.

Meanwhile, the RA haven't troubled themselves to even acknowledge the shitstorm they whipped up. And on Twitter, Katy Montgomerie, says that they were asked to go on to R4 to take part in that 10 minute interview, but 'didn't have time.' This is the same Katy Montgomerie who was messing about on Twitter then, and probably will be for most of the day. (150 tweets in the last hour, twitter informs me.) When Katy said they were too busy to go on the Today programme, did they mean too busy on twitter?

Ah, okay datun. Good to be clear.