Pronoun badges for train staff and mis-gendering passengers

It would seem that the employee was being rude, it shouldn't take repeated requests to get it right.

However the article only contains supplied images which makes me think reality may be somewhat different and we don't know what Eden's voice sounds like. The stroop test is an interesting experiment in the mental effort required to say something different to what we see.

Even if we gave the employee the benefit of the doubt their dismissive attitude when Eden became frustrated was not an example of good customer service. I'm playing devils advocate because when a friend transitioned it took me a while to consistently get their name and pronouns right, I had not desire to upset a friend but the change was not easy to make no matter how willing I was to support them.

Eden tried to compel the train staff to tell a lie?

How is it 'telling a lie' to use someone's preferred form of address? 'Sir' is simply a courtesy title.

If Eden looks in real life as in those pictures, then using 'sir' and 'he' was clearly deliberate, especially after Eden corrected them multiple times. Whatever one's views on the trans debate, there is really no call for being so deliberately rude to a customer after they have politely asked you to address them in a certain way.

Eden tried to compel the train staff to tell a lie?

They may have been rude, but they were also right, and if you are focusing on something else it makes it even harder to do a Stroop test correctly.

I think deliberately using the sex-based pronouns rather than their preferred ones when talking to someone is incredibly rude and unnecessary. Why not just say "you" when addressing the person and "this customer" when talking to a colleague in front of the person? No mis-gendering, no saying things you don't believe to be true. Lots of religious people don't believe in gay marriage, but deliberately referring to a female customer's "girlfriend" rather than "wife" after being told they were married wouldn't be okay IMO.

I don’t like the use of the term “correcting” people - reeks of facism to me.

It's something of an exaggeration to compare the use of this term to fascism. What would be your preferred word to describe what Eden did?

I would be interested to know how polite Eden was

But I still think it's incredibly rude once a customer has pointed out their preference.

I sometimes ask people to call me Ms rather than Mrs. I don't press the point if they continue to use Mrs but if I thought they were being snarky about it I would class that as rude.

I don’t like the use of the term “correcting” people - reeks of facism to me.

Eden’s desire to present as a woman doesn’t override reality.

Funny that is what many here have been saying for a long time.

“It’s interesting because their [Northern Rail] latest posts on Instagram are all to do with Pride Month,” she says.

“This just happens all too much - all these companies support Pride and express their love for LGBT+ people but then they don’t know how to communicate with trans people.

Here's Gamestop Ma'am, for those who don't recall the incident.

The judgement did indeed make a point of saying that it wasn't a licence to misgender people.

Lots of information in this with talk of white privilege, mental health being affected by mis-gendering but in light of the Maya ruling last week I'm wondering if staff can be forced to use pronouns that don't match what they see?

I believe the judgement specifically said that the ruling did not mean that people were therefore free to misgender people.

I wonder how they knew they were men

Presumably, they didn't correct Eden if/when she referred to them by male pronouns.

Really, really rude to carry on using sir and he when Eden drew attention to it.

But acrylic nails and lippy do not a woman make so that comment by Eden was illogical.

Still rude, ignorant and uncalled for by the train employee though.

Sounds pretty deliberate and positively rude by the end. I don’t believe this was accidental, or due to neurodivergence on the part of the station staff member. There is no reason really to repeatedly insert the word ‘sir’ in a conversation that doesn’t require it. I think Eden is right to be pissed off.

There are usually three sides to each story. His side, "her" side, and the truth.

It’s probably easier for them if they just start saying ‘customer’ instead. Eden has said it was two men serving them though, I wonder how they knew they were men.

From the report I read, it sounds like the staff member continued to say he despite being corrected. Obviously we only have one side here but generally if someone says it's mr/he, ms/she or dr, professor, wing commander, whatever you use it and say nothing in front of the the customer even if you have a giggle with colleagues after (yes I have experienced a drag queen booking the venue I managed, not in full drag but I said he and was corrected to she

Very rude of the member of staff. She told them to use she, they should have done so.

Whether the photograph is accurate or not, Eden shouldn't have had to correct them more than once.

To be fair, if Eden identified as a man, but enjoyed presenting as feminine, they might be pissed off at being called, Madam. They might, at which point Eden would say no I'm a him and the staff would be expected to use the pronouns that accompanies that surely. It isn't the initial mistake and the sarcy comment about "these days"

Is this just Gamestop "ma'am" all over again? Basically someone using "sir" or "madam" as a verbal filler, which, especially when nervous due to confrontation, is unlikely to be consciously considered. So obviously it's going to reflect perceived sex.

Yes it does have relevance as Eden made the assertion that they are clearly signs of womanhood. Carefully lit and posed 2D pictures may well bear no resemblance to real life. As always, I would prefer to hear both sides.

Surely Eden should have said my pronouns are she/her and my ticket is wrong. Otherwise they were at risk of "misgendering" the other way...

That's what she did say - repeatedly. They carried on calling her 'Sir'.