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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pronoun badges for train staff and mis-gendering passengers

233 replies

CervixSampler · 16/06/2021 17:01

Trans woman 'repeatedly misgendered' by Northern Rail worker at Piccadilly https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/trans-woman-hits-out-after-20829187

This article doesn't say if they have a GRC but they have legally changed their name. Lots of information in this with talk of white privilege, mental health being affected by mis-gendering but in light of the Maya ruling last week I'm wondering if staff can be forced to use pronouns that don't match what they see? To use Sir and he then the staff must have seen a male despite the facial surgery, acrylic nails, bra under their top land ponytail. I really struggle when things don't match as it were and my brain just can't compute it (awaiting ASD assessment) It's like a trans Stroop test. Just because I see a pony tail, long nails, and feminine facial features it doesn't mean that I will see a woman if other factors say male. Height, build, mannerisms, speech, voice, gait etc would all be interpreted as male and counter any feminine dressing and make up on the surface.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/06/2021 17:22

This has no relevance to the article. Eden is just pointing out the unlikelihood of the misgendering being a genuine mistake. I can't see anything in the article saying she thinks the specified fashion items are the only signs that someone is female.

To be fair, if Eden identified as a man, but enjoyed presenting as feminine, they might be pissed off at being called, Madam.

Surely Eden should have said my pronouns are she/her and my ticket is wrong. Otherwise they were at risk of "misgendering" the other way...

Arbadacarba · 16/06/2021 17:20

@TheFleegleHasLanded

I am clearly failing as a woman today, having neither acrylic nails nor a ponytail. I am wearing a bra as I am more comfortable wearing one, but other than that I am beginning to wonder if I am a man? All the signs are there; short hair, trousers, comfortable shoes.....
This has no relevance to the article. Eden is just pointing out the unlikelihood of the misgendering being a genuine mistake. I can't see anything in the article saying she thinks the specified fashion items are the only signs that someone is female.
SleepingStandingUp · 16/06/2021 17:19

I really struggle when things don't match as it were and my brain just can't compute it I'm not sure Eden looks so overwhelmingly masculine though, and even if you did make a mistake and say he, surely once she said "it's she not he" you'd correct yourself and apologise?

Assuming her version is correct, he early wanted to make a point that HE saw her as a man and his opinion mattered most

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 16/06/2021 17:18

Not sure how they were meant to know that Eden was wearing a bra Hmm

I would also like to hear the railway workers side of events, it sounds as if perhaps they didn't even look at Eden but were sorting out tickets and training another member of staff, and perhaps were paying more attention to Edens voice than their appearance.

If the story is as Eden stars they were being dicks though.

TheFleegleHasLanded · 16/06/2021 17:16

I am clearly failing as a woman today, having neither acrylic nails nor a ponytail. I am wearing a bra as I am more comfortable wearing one, but other than that I am beginning to wonder if I am a man? All the signs are there; short hair, trousers, comfortable shoes.....

BraveBananaBadge · 16/06/2021 17:14

From the way the story's written that's a pretty grotty and rude way to treat someone, though and I'm not surprised Eden was upset.

334bu · 16/06/2021 17:13

If the member of staff had been politely asked to use Miss etc, then it was a deliberate act. It was impolite to persist, especially as the customer's name was known to the staff member and could have been used. This was a needless provocation if the events happened as described.

Arbadacarba · 16/06/2021 17:11

The article claims the station staff repeatedly misgendered Eden, even after being corrected. It sounds to me that they were careless at best, antagonistic at worst. If they had an ethical problem with using Eden's preferred gender, they could simply have called her 'Eden'.

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