Pronoun badges for train staff and mis-gendering passengers

I am sorry, I haven't RTFT so might be repeating but this stood out to me

“It’s just frustrating because when you’re trying so hard to be perceived as the gender that you are and trying to meet expectations of how people view you, it just completely undermines it all.

“I just had facial surgery seven months ago, I've legally changed my name and I'm on hormones every day yet people still decide to ignore what they see in front of them.

This just illustrates the problem with affirmation and the 'gender trumps sex' narrative. It looks as though Eden has a need to be 'perceived as 'the gender you are' (not the sex) and can't see the irony in the comment that 'people decide to ignore what they see in front of them' when the truth is that people see a male person presenting as if they were female.

The SW and Mermaids affirmation only type approaches surely have to take some responsibility for situations like this, but it is always everyone else deemed at fault

I have to say it sounds a lot more likely to me that the worker was being clueless or confused rather than deliberately rude.

Because if he was at all clued in, he would also be aware that his job was at risk from the pointless rudeness.

Maybe Northern Rail is the one workplace in the country that needs more trans awareness training.

I don't have acrylic nails, or a ponytail. As these are the attributes which Eden said makes one a woman, is it the case that I am a man because I lack them? yet I know I am an adult human female; because biology .

Abracadabra
If there's an impasse between satisfying the beliefs of opposing ideologies, surely a compromise should be sought, rather than requiring one side to back down. A compromise such as addressing Eden as 'Eden' for example, and referring to her in non-gendered ways, e.g. 'this customer' rather than 'this man'.

It will be interesting to see if Northern Rail will allow such a compromise. I don’t think they will. I think it’s more likely that their employee will be ‘retrained’ to provide positive affirmation.

I feel really sorry for Eden. Especially after reading she was on her way to a dentist appointment. I might be projecting a bit here, because I absolutely hate the dentist, but it's not a good time to have to cope with anything unexpected.

I hope that Northern Rail can get to the bottom of what the member of staff thought was going on, and whether it was maliciously motivated or had more benign roots.

I find it hard to have much sympathy when Eden is male though, Eden’s relying on others picking up on sexist stereotypes to call Eden “she” and if you don’t know much about the subject I can see how you’d fail to pick up on what Eden was asking for.

It wouldn't particularly bother me to be referred to as fat (I'm overweight). That doesn't mean others wouldn't be deeply upset by it; possibly even find it a trigger for an underlying eating disorder.

It's no argument at all to say 'x thing doesn't bother me, so I don't care if anyone else is bothered by it.'

If there's an impasse between satisfying the beliefs of opposing ideologies, surely a compromise should be sought, rather than requiring one side to back down.
Not only is that the thin edge of a very unpleasant wedge, but compromises that women might be willing to make will never be enough for others to accept.

Hair in a ponytail, acrylic nails, and a bra do not a woman make. Eden's natal sex will remain a fact throughout her life no matter her attempts to amend it, and it is Eden's responsibility to understand that and acknowledge that others may or will not use words that do not apply to her.

Eden's rights are her own but they end where the rights of others begin.

I get misgendered often. I am definitely a female, I even have a ponytail! 😂🙄. I can’t say I feel the need to go to the newspapers about it when it happens. I don’t even bother correcting the person unless my sex is relevant to the discussion we’re having. If I had a pound for everytime someone has called me ‘son’ I’d be very rich.

My son gets called she a lot as he has long hair. He does correct people every single time and they rarely correct it to he.

I really struggle to care about this kind of thing.

@DdraigGoch It is certainly considered rude for nobles to be addressed by their social inferiors directly. Hence "Your Lordship should enjoy the soup" instead of "You should enjoy the soup".

Other than with royals, the practice has long since withered away.

Ahem. Maybe uninformed people aren't aware that 'king gender' and 'Queen Gender' exist as deeply felt, and sincere identities. They are on a current list and have their own flags; in order to signal to other common people to act appropriately in their presence.

So, no. Not withered away. Resurrected and a choice, not merely an accident of birth like her majesty .

@kowari exactly, I can totally see if this were to happen to my MIL she wouldn’t understand why the person she’s perceived as male kept saying “she” she wouldn’t relate it back to her use of “Sir” and with the trainee there as well she’d probably get embarrassed and frustrated and be concentrating on whatever the query was that she’d think he/she whatever, does it really matter?

I know, as a woman, if I were ever referred to as he/sir I probably wouldn’t say anything and embarrass the person and just think it’s one interaction of thousands, it doesn’t really matter.

It’s an example that not everybody is doing it on purpose to be hurtful, some people just can’t get their heads around it.

If a policy requires an employee to use language that validates an ideology that he or she regards as dishonest and dangerous that's clearly not going to be a very good experience for them. I would want to discourage that

A few posts ago the employee was a simple 50 year old who couldn't possibly be expected to know about , far less understanding gender ideology. Now apparently he's so clued up about it that he knew he was being asked to validate an ideology that he regards as dishonest and dangerous.

Neither option gives any plausible reason why he couldn't stop saying "sir" when asked.

My MIL gets pronouns the wrong way around all the time, especially for cartoon characters and DDs little friends who’ve got uncommon names, doesn’t matter how many times we correct her she just can’t get it into her head that Peppa Pig is a she and Elijah is a he.

[quote howard97A]@Arbadacarba
I see nothing wrong with a policy that promotes positive and customer-friendly interactions. If a transperson is being deliberately misgendered, that's clearly not going to be a very good experience for them - why would anyone want to encourage that?

If a policy requires an employee to use language that validates an ideology that he or she regards as dishonest and dangerous that's clearly not going to be a very good experience for them. I would want to discourage that.[/quote]
If there's an impasse between satisfying the beliefs of opposing ideologies, surely a compromise should be sought, rather than requiring one side to back down.

A compromise such as addressing Eden as 'Eden' for example, and referring to her in non-gendered ways, e.g. 'this customer' rather than 'this man'.

@Arbadacarba
I see nothing wrong with a policy that promotes positive and customer-friendly interactions. If a transperson is being deliberately misgendered, that's clearly not going to be a very good experience for them - why would anyone want to encourage that?

If a policy requires an employee to use language that validates an ideology that he or she regards as dishonest and dangerous that's clearly not going to be a very good experience for them. I would want to discourage that.