Statement from Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

Have just had an argument with a younger friend about this. She's about 32 and thinks saying "transwomen are transwomen" is the same as saying " transwomen are cunts". Her words

With people like that, I point out that saying TW are TW is acknowledging their unique journey. I ask why the -handmaiden- other woman is erasing the TW’s past and being so patronising. TW are TW is affirming their uniqueness.. I tend to keep away from the GC arguments, at least initially, because that makes them even more entrenched and less likely to listen.

As shown with the ‘accessorize’ comment about TW in a menopause group, many TWAW chanters are actually extremely patronising about trans people, which is nasty and rather nauseating IMO.

oopsI meant a big thing

I think a lot of it is because of the narrative that a TW is a real, essential, somehow "true" woman, suffering even more than most women because of being trapped in the "wrong body" (much as this phrase is being questioned, I think it's still how a lot of well-meaning people see it). To think this you have to push aside thinking about a definition of women and instead just think that a TW is a woman just like yourself in some inner sense, who can be helped by being welcomed by you, and having any concerns or questions would be just mean.

A few years ago when it was taking off as a big, there were several BBC articles about children who were identifying as the opposite sex and transitioning at school etc - some really young. There was a narrative that e.g. male child didn't just "want to be a girl", they explained to their parents that they were a girl and the implication was that we all needed to grasp this important fact.

It was partly this that set me thinking about how a boy could possibly KNOW they were a girl and what these things really mean. And of course I think what the child really means is that they must be a girl because their feelings and tastes don't fit with what they are told a boy is meant to be, especially if adults are affirming being trans as a solution.

But if you just take "I'm really a girl" as the truth, it becomes this tenet of trans identity that cannot be questioned because the person themself knows best right? Even though when you think about it with a clear head, a TW literally cannot know how being a biological woman feels - as many TW themselves describe.

I think it's an intellectual house of cards. Once you deviate a bit it makes it hard to maintain the whole. Which is fundamentally why a middle ground is unachievable.

Trans women are not only welcome [in a menopause group! called “Hot Girls!”], they are cherished — we have all learned from their stories and world class ability to accessorise.

Words fail.

Stories about what? Their personal experiences of menopause? What kind of accessory knowledge solves menopause issues?

What a lot of patronising drivel, I find that downright offensive to the TW involved. No woman would talk about another woman's 'amazing ability to accessorise' as the best they had to offer, that's flat out head patting.

I've been trying understand it too, @MareofBeasttown.

I've been making a list of possible reasons, but I still feel I'm missing something, like some kind of social media social contagion explanation.

So far I've got,

Fear
A prize
And a fanatical dedication to the trope

(With thanks to the Pythons)

Curious isn't it, the absolute refusal to see any holes in the argument.

I don't think there is much to understand Mare, in terms of logic anyway.

I think the word that I want to use is banned, but the only thing to understand is that your friend has bought into a system of belief that tolerates neither questioning nor any deviation from the core tenets. It's very frustrating as there is so much to be gained from discussion.

Have just had an argument with a younger friend about this. She's about 32 and thinks saying "transwomen are transwomen" is the same as saying " transwomen are cunts". Her words. She doesn't agree that gender critical women can argue for transwomen to be safe and well while still not agreeing that they have the same experiences as women. I tried to argue Eddie Izzard's case; chap moves in and out of womenhood as easily as he changes his dress, while the rest of us have to walk the streets fearing we will be raped or assaulted. But she is not having it. I find it hard to understand.

I go past a Waterstones on the school run. It's good for when I wake up with a sudden urge to buy books.

I'm sure a transwoman's stories may be very interesting but they have nothing to do with menopause.

Trans women are not only welcome [in a menopause group! called “Hot Girls!”], they are cherished — we have all learned from their stories and world class ability to accessorise.

That sums it up right there. A MENOPAUSE group for support with a process that only affects biological women, being open to males who think they can "do" womanhood via make-up and handbags - and being ENCOURAGED in that delusion but "kind" women.

I have always, even long pre-genderism takeover, felt uncomfortable about the way trans women (and drag to an extent, though it can be more ironic I suppose) try to make womanhood all about cosmetic issues and fashion, and push at women the idea that we're all sitting around obsessing about lipstick and heels and that a male TW can bond with us as a woman over these things.

It's not that I'm not interested (I love clothes and sometimes like make-up too) but these things are not what makes me a woman. You can't make a male person into a woman by welcoming them to you menopause group and then trying to make it all about accessories.

And on top of that how patronising. Plenty of male men are far better at accessorising than a lot of the TW I've seen.

like him

Searching for "chimamanda ngozi adichie" in amazon brings first a whole line of sponsored books by Akwaeke Emezi

Still cashing in on Chimamanda's name, I see...

@HeirloomTomato I'm 37. I was TWAW up until about 10 years ago when I read an article by Paris Lees, basically arguing that catcalling is great. That's when the scales fell from my eyes and I started reading stuff by Sarah Ditum and the like. The worm well and truly turned.

My mum and sister (41 and 66) are firmly on the GC side, but my main friendship group are TWAW and deeply embedded in the trans/queer community in the city I live in. I've talked a bit about my feelings with one of them, but the others have no idea about my views. It's very lonely.

Now with link www.facebook.com/227934527222357/posts/4881927648489665/?d=n

I was really heartened to see the comments under this Facebook post from the guardian - most are fairly firmly GC, which feels like a real shift in the wind.

So many courageous women - PUUUULL

now

HeirloomTomato yes. As well as historical stuff, a 40something woman also faces menopause, ageism in the jobs market, the caring burden of kids and elderly parents. It's a huge slog at times. And niw we have this shit to deal with as well

I can’t help noticing how many intelligent women over the age of 40 are speaking their minds on trans issues and getting abuse for it now. It’s a real generational divide. Younger people are so fixated on the issue of trans rights they have forgotten about women’s rights and take them for granted.

Personally, I think it’s because those of us who are over 40 (I’m the same age as Adichie) have experienced real sexism and oppression on the basis of our sex. We’re old enough to remember a society where male superiority was unquestioned and we recognize the supremacist attitude of trans rights activists for what it is: male entitlement & a desire to silence women.

It's really insulting to anyone who has ever felt suicidal.

Exactly what I thought reading that. I've experienced what it takes to get to that point because of external pressures. The horrible journey there and the long, slow road back are not something that happens 7 times in 4 years because of one (positive) event.

It's really insulting to anyone who has ever felt suicidal. If you genuinely felt that way on releasing a book, you'd avoid doing it ever again at all costs. Someone should advise her to stop writing for her own welfare, at least until she's had a lot of therapy, which she so clearly needs.

The correct response when someone says “this activity makes me feel suicidal” is to suggest that they a) stop that activity and b) seek help for their distress.

It is positively reckless to encourage them to wallow in those feelings, blame them on the actions of a named person, and suggest that other people sharing their characteristics ought to feel suicidal too.

Awful.

Emezi’s response is unhinged. I do hope that level of distress been manufactured for effect, and if not, that there are people around to offer actual support, as that is not healthy.

I have no idea what a transwoman could constructively bring to a menopause support group, and I find it quite spectacularly offensive that they would suppose they belonged. WHY are women abasing themselves in this way? Menopause is a process that only happens to biological females.

Much more cheeringly, this debacle reminded me that Americanah has been in my to-read pile for a while, and I started it last night. My god, that woman can write. It is wonderful. Love her! (Properly, and not in a self serving way)